uh-oh another dead fish

[stang8s]

First my algae blenny is reported MIA 2 days ago, big sucker about 4-5" long, vanished. All else appears fine.. Tonight I find my mini-cardinal who lives in the fuge laying dead.. Tiny little guy about 1/2" long. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps not... I have a new butterfly in the tank that i got yesterday who is doing great. All other fish in the tank doing great (clowns just spawned a few days ago). Clam, shrimp, starfish, inverts all fine and accounted for. Corals fully extended on all counts.

I ran every test kit I have tonight:
Temp 80
Salinity 1.024
ammonia 0
nitrate 0
nitrite 0
alk 2.5 meg/L
calcium someplace in the 450-500 range (my test kit stinks)
Ph was at 8.8 in the sump with lights out..

What concerned me was ph higher then typical and alk lower. So I added about 5 teaspoons of baking soda and have a 10 gallon water change mixing to change in the AM. The baking soda dropped ph to 8.6 in the sump where i dumped it.

Any other idea?? The cardinal lived in the fuge that is just about stagnent water and full of calupera and other algae.. I always figured he got enough oxygen exchange through the tank water that was plumbed through slowly.. Perhaps I was wrong on that count and that now that he was larger then he had been (was a spec when i got him) he wasnt getting enough flow/oxygen?

The blenny is still a mystery and could have been missing for as long as a week now, cant remember the exact last time I saw him.

 

[Jim Tansey]

I would calibrate the pH meter, that pH is high. I don't know what would cause it to jump but thats the first thing I would look for.

Jim

 

[stang8s]

Jim-
I think your right, the meter is whacked. I have cal solutions for 4,7,10 it was off on all of them. When I set it for any of them, it is off for the other 2.. I think my solutions are old and bad too. When I set it to the 4 or the 7 it puts my tank ph way too low, down in the 7s... When I set it with the 10 (which is my newest solution) it puts my tank at 8.4 which is the most believable. I will have to go get some new solutions. I cant find the proper cal procedure for my meter either, does it end up being a compromise between solutions or should it read them all correctly?
Jeff

 

[stang8s]

just found the directions. I was just adjusting the offset on the front, apparantly there is a slope adjustment on the back.. I will have to find some new solutions.

 

[JustDavidP]

Jeff,

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but you know that water which is "off" in alkalinity etc. will cause extreme changes of pH due to its miserable buffering against changes in carbon dioxide concentrations and therfore you could have CO2 and O2 problems.

Changes in the different bases or gasses in your system can cause changes in pressure for the same gasses or act synergistically with other ions in the water making them more toxic (amonia, hydrogen sulfide etc.) This also affects the fish's respatory functions as there will be associated swings in oxygen levels as a result. Remember that they fish are in "balance" with their environment. They could have died from blood acidosis or a slow cardiac arrest due to elevated CO2 in their environ.

The little cardinal in your fuge may have taken a hard hit if you had swings in Ph and Alk, and therefore screwy CO2/O2 levels and you keep the fuge lit 24/7. Especially if it is low flow and gets little oxygen boost from the main system.

 

[stang8s]

This morning- mandarin dead.. water change coming asap. Not much left for fish in there. hippo, 2 clowns and butterfly

 

[JustDavidP]

Youch!!!

Is there something else going on? Did your macro go sexual? Something? Anything... what about the fish room. Painted it recently? New cleaners? anything get into the tank? That's nutz dude...sorry for your losses.

Dave

 

[TheUltimateNoob]

david,

why would macro going sexual have any ill-effect on a system?

 

[stang8s]

I thought of the macro thing and just pulled out about 3/4 of it. It does look a bit swampy in the fuge. Should I pull it all out?? Just did 10 gallon water change and am making more RO/DI now for another one tomorrow.

 

[JustDavidP]

NO JEFF... don't take it all out. Just prune it back. It'll stimulate growth and improve flow etc. while physically removing the "controlled nutrients". If you take it all out, you'll be bummed. Let me ask. Is any of it "translucent"? Can you see through it at all? Do you think it went on ya?

Peter, from what I hear, once a macro goes sexual on you, it releases into the water and then stains, reducing light, increasing nutrient load and causing a step cycle of crashes. I've always kept mine pruned down. Never witnessed it myself, but hear it can be ugly.

 

[stang8s]

I took most of it out. About 5 pounds! Left a softball sized clump. It was mostly the "good" kind so im doubting it was macro but would rather replace macro then more fish..

I may have overadjusted the alk last night, strange but true.. I am testing 4.0 now and was only getting 2.5 last night. I only added about 4-5 teaspoons of baking soda..

 

[stang8s]

oh wait i forgot about the water change i just did, i imagine that changed it some as well.

 

[TheUltimateNoob]

shoot, i never knew that. i know what i'm doing tonight.

 

[NateHanson]

Peter, only caleurpa goes sexual. If you're keeping chaetomorpha there's no danger of it melting. (not that you shouldn't keep it pruned though).

Was the Baking soda added all at once? That might have caused a big pH correction if your tank pH was already off.

Bummer Jeff. Hope you've caught up with things now, and the worst is behind you.

 

[stang8s]

Nate-Yes i added it all at once but 4-5 tsp in a 75gal+10fuge+10sump shouldnt have been enough to kill the mandarin. (the other 2 fish were already mia/dead).. Back when I was first starting out i had made MUCH larger corrections then that without any ill effects..

I had VERY little calupra mostly chaetomorpha, but as I said before I thought of this and cleared out 90% of it anyway. Id rather grow/get more macro and critters then new fish.. Besides the main consumer was the mandarin who is now Dead..

 

[stang8s]

hmm i forgot i have a royal gramma in here too, just made an apperance and reminded me.. so 5 fish left

 

[JustDavidP]

Peter,

If you are using Chaeto or Graciliaria, you have few worries. They are a couple of the macros that are multi-cellular and therefore more stable. Just remember, that ANY macro can be a problem if left unchecked. They have been known to taint the water color, whether or not they are noxious when the cellular structure explodes/is broken for any reason, (rough harvesting, osmotic shock etc.). I always use carbon for this reason alone. Failure to change the carbon regularly causes my tank to yellow.

Please remember though, that caulerpa is NOT the only macro that is used in aquaria that has been known to go sexual. Halimeda can, Udotea flabellum can, Penicillus spp does...etc. Some of which we do regularly see in the LFS, others are not as easily found, but are used in displays and refugia. (I have a friend with a seagrass filter system that is amazing and has some real neato macros in there as well).

Your best bet is to know the properties/life cycle of the macro that YOU are using. Another idea worth noting is that you should DEFINATELY know your macros if you plan on using more than one kind in a closed system. They may be harmless alone, but resort to chemical warfare if mixed and matched in a fuge/display.

Dave

 

[JustDavidP]

BTW...if you have a chance to search for any of Calfo's refugia or macro articles...and take his "practical applications" with a twist of Randy Holmes-Farley's "how come", it all fits nicely into a package even a layman like me can understand.

 

[stang8s]

I forget for sure what mine is/was. It is the green brillo pad stuff, None was clear. Most is in the garbage now! Whatever it is that is killing my fish is not effecting corals whatsoever or inverts for that matter. Full polyp extension on everything. Clam is happy as a clam, shrimp are shrimpy, etc

 

[JustDavidP]

Jeff,

That's Chaeto..and should not have been a problem. I don't think it had anything to do in killing your fish. It has to be the PH/Alk swings or another variable we aren't seeing.

Dave