When is Kalk not enough?

[mvallee]

The FTS thread has inspired me a bit to try to grow more SPS,
I am currently using a kalk stirrer on the out line of my ATO and have a couple questions.
My tank is pretty stable right now and the only dosing I do is from running a kalk stirrer in line from my ATO but I have minimal growth in stony corals. is keeping your measurable levels where they need to be enough to grow SPS with Kalk?

My level are consistent, I only test every 3-4 weeks
Alk 9.1 to 9.3
PH 8.9 to 9.1
Mag 1250 (I am working on raising this up to 1350)
Cal 470-500
Sal 1.025
Nit .10 to .25
Phos 0 to .05

I do weekly 10% water changes with Red Sea Coral Pro which I think is what is giving the greatest stability as opposed to 35 to 40 gallon water changes every few weeks. I have lost an awful lot of beautiful pieces from I think Alk swings that is what I mean by stability not losing anything in the tank recently, I had been dosing ESVB Ionic two part during those times of most of my losses as well.

For lighting I am 2 months into using an ATI 60" powermodule with 8 80 watt bulbs and 6 weeks into new bulbs mostly blue+ one purple plus and two coral plus. All ATI bulbs. This was a switch from LED Reefbreeders and Ocean revive for 14 months and while that birds nest has benefited immensely from this light and a merulina coral has really started thickening up and really colored up no other major benefits seen other than making my electric meter spin a lot faster.

My tank is healthy, The easy corals are doing great, Zoa's Paly's thriving and growing, Leathers have always grown well for me no matter what I had going on in the tank. Duncan, blasto, meat coral look fantastic and growing. I have some monitpora that look good and are spreading and encrusting but not tabling out and we are talking 6-9 months going from the size of a dime to maybe 3.5" X 3.5", I have a couple pocillopora that seem to be hanging on, no growth in 3 months but they have great PE just no noticeable growth. I have a couple pieces that are doing well and growing one being a gatorade birdsnest. it is what I would call a mini colony at this point maybe the size of a baseball many new branches and it is always fuzzy looking, it is so beautiful. I have what I think is a green slimer that had added a couple branches encrusting down on it's plug but not really growing out and I have had this piece for well over 9 months.

I feed the tank one night a week after lights out with Coral frenzy and supplement once a week with 3 capfuls of Acro Power. I feed LRS Reef Frenzy as well daily.

This makes me wonder, is doing no dosing other than Kalkwasser and more frequent water changes enough? if these corals were trying to grow would the numbers be going down or should I be supplementing more for them.


I do like my tank, I just had a vision of that arch on the left half of my tank being full of SPS and right now my reef rubble is made of many failed attempts and in it's current state and before I try again maybe all birdsnests I figure I time to get some advice.

 

[reefstarter]

its already too much now since your PH is way high . lower PH isn't as much as a problem as high PH Might be time for dosing 2 part or a reactor my friend . I use Kalk to help bring my PH up a bit since I use a calcium reactor .

 

[dz6t]

I think your pH is in very dangerous zones.
Your Cal and Alk is fine. Since there is not much SPS in the tank, calcium consumption is minimal. So I will stop Kalk dosing or any dosing for a while untill you see a measurable drop in Ca and Alk.

 

[mvallee]

Crap mistyped PH is 7.9 to 8.1 correcting original post now,

no edit option on the first post, not sure how to update but I could edit this post, not sure whay

 

[mvallee]

Other than the mistyped PH numbers why would I want to see where the numbers drop to if I am maintaining desirable levels and if I am maintaining desirable levels why are SPS not growing well should I drop Kalk in favor of dosing and I am letting the tanks settle out so I can start controlled dosing? I have a dosing system with two peristaltic 1.1ml pumps and 10 gallon segregated tank for the chemicals so I am ready just confused that Kalk is doing the job and trying to keep things as simple as possible but want to see progress at the same time in my tank.

 

[dz6t]

I think your levels are fine.
I would take that big leather out as it might inhibit the growth of acro.

 

[reefstarter]

Just over 400 calcium like 420 is good , alk around 8-8.5 mag 1300 is what I shoot for . and seems to do well with everything . some sps like alk a bit lower like around 7.5 or so it all depends on nutrient level . ULNS ssytems tend to require less alk while tanks with a bit higher nutrients like it around 8 ish .

 

[mvallee]

Just over 400 calcium like 420 is good , alk around 8-8.5 mag 1300 is what I shoot for . and seems to do well with everything . some sps like alk a bit lower like around 7.5 or so it all depends on nutrient level . ULNS ssytems tend to require less alk while tanks with a bit higher nutrients like it around 8 ish .

I would probably be able to maintain those numbers without kalk, the RSCP numbers are pretty high and with weekly water changes would probably level out right around there. Maybe I will take it offline just to see where I end up and if I need to boost numbers I will start playing with the dosers, slow and steady of course.

The thing that always bothered me about the kalk stirrer is in the winter I go though maybe 5-7 gallons per week of top off water in the summer it's like 3-4 gallons per day especially if I am running the fan on the sump to cool things down so that makes that manner of dosing very inconsistent.
Thanks

I got rid of a ton of leathers already mostly tyree toadstools and a big yellow toadstool with no difference and that was tough because they grew so well for me I would hate to get rid of the last one but all things are on the table,
thanks for the suggestions

 

[nemodan]

My experience:

Alk is too high : 7-8 will be better
Phosp : OK
N03: too high. Try no more then 3-5 ppm
Mg : Ok. With weekly WC of 10% you do not need to supplement or either to measure it.
Ca : would be nice around 410-420 (I am dosing b-ionic in equal amount and I rarely measure it)
Ph: I do not chase it. Just indirectly I use it to know if my system is stable.

I do not have ANY experience with Alk.

I hope this helps.

Cheers
Daniel

 

[dz6t]

I would probably be able to maintain those numbers without kalk, the RSCP numbers are pretty high and with weekly water changes would probably level out right around there. Maybe I will take it offline just to see where I end up and if I need to boost numbers I will start playing with the dosers, slow and steady of course.

The thing that always bothered me about the kalk stirrer is in the winter I go though maybe 5-7 gallons per week of top off water in the summer it's like 3-4 gallons per day especially if I am running the fan on the sump to cool things down so that makes that manner of dosing very inconsistent.
Thanks

I got rid of a ton of leathers already mostly tyree toadstools and a big yellow toadstool with no difference and that was tough because they grew so well for me I would hate to get rid of the last one but all things are on the table,
thanks for the suggestions

You can separate the kalk reactor from auto top off.
That way you can meter in Kalk solution instead of relying on water evaporation.

 

[mvallee]

My experience:

Alk is too high : 7-8 will be better
Phosp : OK
N03: too high. Try no more then 3-5 ppm
Mg : Ok. With weekly WC of 10% you do not need to supplement or either to measure it.
Ca : would be nice around 410-420 (I am dosing b-ionic in equal amount and I rarely measure it)
Ph: I do not chase it. Just indirectly I use it to know if my system is stable.

I do not have ANY experience with Alk.

I hope this helps.

Cheers
Daniel

N03 I was not sure what that was but Google shows it to be Nitrate .1 to .25 is too high? I thought I was doing pretty good. What does 3-5ppm equate too? I am having a hard time finding out what that is, I use salifert test kits for nitrate.

 

[mvallee]

You can separate the kalk reactor from auto top off.
That way you can meter in Kalk solution instead of relying on water evaporation.

I was considering dosing kalk as opposed to the stirrer but with the dosing system I got from a fellow reefer with two peristaltic pumps if needed I think I will try a two part and dial it in unless you think I would be better off dosing with Kalk over starting to dose a two part, if you do I would like to hear why.

 

[dz6t]

Either dosing Kalk or two parts will work for you. Just need to start slow and test frequently when dosing two parts.
Since your birdsnest are growing good, I doubt Cal and Alk is the problem for slow acro growth.

 

[dz6t]

I will give it some time for the coral to adjust to t-5, you may see acro growth pickup after a month or so.

 

[nemodan]

N03 I was not sure what that was but Google shows it to be Nitrate .1 to .25 is too high? I thought I was doing pretty good. What does 3-5ppm equate too? I am having a hard time finding out what that is, I use salifert test kits for nitrate.

Sorry !!!!!

I miss read those numbers as 10 to 25. They are OK .

Cheers
Daniel

ppm = parts per millions

.......This is an abbreviation for "parts per million" and it also can be expressed as milligrams per liter (mg/L). This measurement is the mass of a chemical or contaminate per unit volume of water. Seeing ppm or mg/L on a lab report means the same thing......

 

[this is me]

You tank is asking for a reactor when one or all of this is occurring
1) Your ALK and/or CA is bouncing around because you constantly need to increase the dosage
2) You dose so much that the salinity level starts to creep up before you do your water change
3) You dose so much that the PH level is higher than the recommended range.

My PH level before the reactor was 8.25-8.6. After the reactor, the PH is 8.1-8.3. I never had a problem with low PH with this tank in this house. After more and more demand of alk dosage, the PH got too high for my comfort. The salinity was also increasing but it was not a big deal. I usually take out a cup or two of tank water everything to thaw out the food. But if I don't, the salinity will increase 1 point from 1.025 to 1.026. This is after a week.
I firmly believe in weekly water change. I use cheap IO salt and just change 10-15% every week.

 

[mvallee]

after a few weeks without kalk and weekly 20 gallon water changes with RSCP I am at KH 8.6 and CA 420, hopefully they stabilize here otherwise I will be looking to start dosing, I do have one Acro that appears to be bleaching so going to be keeping a close eye, I would not consider this an alk swing and I have a few of this same piece at about the same height in the tank that look the same as always so could be a one off thing.
I also have hit pretty much bottom for Nitrates @ .05 and Phos of 0 so might be time to get the tank a little dirty again. The odd thing is I am cleaning the tank glass every two days of a green film. I have been dosing red sea no3 po4-x remover to get the number down and it is working my cheato has slowed way down in growth but the green on the glass has accelerated, just one more thing to figure out because I hate cleaning the glass several times a week for fear of scratches.

 

[wpeterson]

What's the Alk level in your freshly mixed salt water? I would double check that you're not introducing a big Alk swing every week.

Stick with Kalk if it's working for you in terms of stable levels, but I'd echo the advise to switch to a dosing pump for Kalk or two part. The Jebao DP-4 dosers are only $70 if you want to try it out without a big investment.

 

[mvallee]

What's the Alk level in your freshly mixed salt water? I would double check that you're not introducing a big Alk swing every week.

Stick with Kalk if it's working for you in terms of stable levels, but I'd echo the advise to switch to a dosing pump for Kalk or two part. The Jebao DP-4 dosers are only $70 if you want to try it out without a big investment.

It is advertised to be mid 12's dkh

that is why I went with smaller water changes more frequently, I was doing 35 gallons every other week and now I am doing 20 every week and the higher levels of RSCP and more frequent smaller water changes I am hoping will give me decent stable parameters.
I have two 1.1ml dosers and container so I am ready to dose just not sure I need to yet and when the time comes it could be a kalk solution or a two part but right now my system is just not consuming that much. I can't wait until I need to dose though

 

[mystereef]

I have several colonies, a few mini colonies and a few frags in my 75g sps tank and 10% weekly water changes and saturated kalk in the top off get it done for me. I have a nice kamoer 3 channel doser, but for now all it's used for is vinegar. kalk gets it done!