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Why Do so Many People Leave the Hobby?

Paul B

paul b
BRS Member
Why do so many people get out of the hobby?
This hobby has been around for 44 years and yet you can count the number of tanks that are at least 20 years old on one hand. OK, maybe two, I didn't really count, but work with me. The vast majority of threads are very new tanks and the second largest number of threads besides disease threads is "Getting out of the hobby, everything for sale" threads. Why is that?
I think I know. It takes a special (weird) type of person to keep at this for a large number of years. By that I mean a person with more varied interests than just keeping some beautiful fish alive. When I started, me and Moses would sit and watch our guppies. After we managed to keep the fish alive we got so excited to see them spawn. Then we would sit up all night with an eye dropper so we could feed each one individually and watch it grow. We were horrified when one (or most of them) died. And they were guppies. Then when we were proficient with breeding different strains of guppies to get different colors we tried mollies, then swordtails and any livebearers we could get our hands on. But that got boring and we needed more of a challenge. There were so many fish to choose from. We had kissing gourami’s, angelfish, discus, zebra’s and bettas with their very cool bubble nests. We did this for years until that was so easy that we did not get excited when our fish spawned. Not being exciting is death to a hobby and we almost went on to other endeavors like trying to guess the phone numbers of Supermodels. But wait. Something happened just in the nick of time that kept us in the hobby.
Someone imported salt water fish into the US. I don't remember who that was but whoever he was, it kept my interest because now I no longer needed to watch my freshwater fish spawn as that was boring because everyone was able to do it. If anyone can do it, it isn't as much fun because we couldn't brag about our success and get fish Geek points. The thrill was gone.
But saltwater fish opened up an entirely new field that no one knew anything about. If a store sold salt water fish they had a huge sign in their window proclaiming that they had salt water fish. That usually meant they had a 5 gallon tank with three, ich infested blue devils and a depressed domino with a social disease on his way to having last rites. But those damsels were so fascinating because now, we again had bragging rites and although we were not very good at keeping these guys alive, no one else could either. Eventually our damsels spawned for us and we were again able to get out the eye dropper and stay up late at night feeding them one at a time. The thrill was back. Much of the thrill was that there was virtually no information available about these things, I mean none, and computers were not invented yet so every day that we kept a damsel alive was a thrill, sort of like bungee jumping but different. I really miss those days as now it is simple to keep most fish alive and to kill a damsel you need to lay it in the street and have a 1957 Chevy Malibu run over it, twice.
Now with the internet and advice coming from every little village on earth there is very little thrill at all. If you need to know something all you do is Google it and an entire plethora of information is at your fingertips. Of course almost all of it is wrong based on rumor, conjecture, supposition, guesswork, innuendos, and drug induced rantings by someone who started a tank last Tuesday and now is the resident expert.
I myself have been doing this a while so I know better on a few things but I can see how it can be overwhelming. I read so many things that I am so opposed to that it drives me nuts so I limit my posts on almost all forums now because of the arguments. Of course I am also old and opinionated so I guess I also am easy to argue with. My old school theories are debunked by young college grads with all sorts of book learning and a cell phone with a google app ready to find something to disagree with. That is fine and is the way of the world. But I think the main reason so many people drop out is that most of the thrill is gone. Almost every fish that can be kept, is kept. We can now keep fish for their entire normal lifespan with no problems.
Thank God for corals. Those gems are still a source of wonder as there are so many types with different needs and so many opinions as to their care. How much light? How much current? Do they need to be fed? What is the best temperature and salinity? How much nitrate can they handle and how much do they need, if any? Would a Supermodel be able to successfully keep a coral? No one really knows so the hobby has hope.

Blue devil over his nest of eggs. Circa 1973

 
3 upgrades and 16+yrs and counting :)
 
A lot of people left the hobby due to moving, job changes, babies and puppies. Babies and puppies are very financially draining especially when babies become teenagers.


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I'm going to have to guess the overall net number has to be increasing at a considerable rate right now if you simply look at the number of vendors and how much money is being dumped into r & d by vast array of companies profiting from this hobby. I also think there are not many 20+ year old tanks because people upgrade...a lot. Look at Mike above, 3 tanks in 16 years. I'm sure there are other factors, but the Internet and having good information at our fingertips certainly helped the hobby along. Prior, you had to listen to the LFS clowns (I was one of them in 1991) for your information or outdated books. Corals were scarcely in the picture until the late 90s. In my far from expert opinion, I'd say the hobby really became accessible and somewhat mainstream somewhere in the late 90s early 2000s.

One final thought, there could be a lot of folks out there with 50 and 60 year old tanks, but they might be more like my mother who has no idea how to work the Internet and are not on message boards and posting pics of their tanks. Hell, there is probably some guy on an island who has been pulling stuff from the ocean and keeping a tank alive for last 70 years. Unlikely....but maybe. :)
 
Thank God for corals. Those gems are still a source of wonder as there are so many types with different needs and so many opinions as to their care. How much light? How much current? Do they need to be fed? What is the best temperature and salinity? How much nitrate can they handle and how much do they need, if any? Would a Supermodel be able to successfully keep a coral? No one really knows so the hobby has hope.
In general, these questions has been answered :)
For nitrates, it depends on the types of coral.
Everyone will be happy at 1 to 5 ppm nitrate (yes, they eat nitrate as dinner)
Softy, LPS and zoas, anemone can tolerate nitrates over a hundred ppm.
SPS otherwise will surfer (well,actually the hobbyists will surfer due to a tank full of brown coral)

For lighting, the battle is going, going and going...
 
Didn't we have this same thread from a Paul B post a month ago? It's a good topic either way.

I think 90% of people leave the hobby because of fundamental water quality problems or acute fish disease outbreaks.

Most folks get hung up somewhere between "new tank" problems and "lazy reefer" problems, but most are failures to keep the fundamentals (temperature, salinity, alk/calc/mag). You can keep things stable in a large tank with a lot of manual effort, but most stable tanks have enough automation to run for several weeks without intervention. Otherwise, you're tempting fate and asking for a crash that might drive you out of the hobby.

Second to that is that many more fish these days arrive with serious diseases that are often masked by LFS holding systems - low level copper that keeps fish alive but infected and they cause serious deaths if they're carelessly added directly to hobbyist tanks - higher rates of ich and marine velvet from wholesalers, LFS, and every step in the fish provider cycle. Dealing with a serious disease in the tank and the death/injury to other fish is crushing and difficult to handle safely.

I didn't realize how dangerous buying sick fish was until we had our own setbacks in our larger tank in CA - we were able to save half our fish, but still lost half our livestock to a bad velvet outbreak from an apparently healthy fish from Divers Den. In our new tank, we're QTing everything and relying on a full TTM pass to ensure fish that look healthy aren't carrying a disaster into our tanks.

Between automation and QT you should be covered for 90% of the horrors that drive folks out of this hobby. People with larger, established tanks may often overlook what the inflections points and critical decisions are for folks new to the hobby or starting a new tank. However, small mistakes cause such big failures in this hobby - I completely understand why folks leave in a hurry.
 
I agree the new fish aren't as healthy as they look. Until recently, I had not bought a fish in many years, and now I am having nothing but bad luck. These new fish seem to die without any apparent illness, no ich, velvet, ammonia poisoning or anything. I don't know if it's the way they are trapped, shipped or warehoused, but a healthy, eating fish shouldn't just die still looking good. It's almost like they have heart attacks. Very depressing.
 
I've been a member for a bunch of years, followed Paulb on that other forum as well for years and was always in awe of his longjevity in this hobby , mostly what I see is people loose interest, have to move, some other issue like, finances, children etc. I have kept tanks for as far back as I can remember as my parents had kept fresh tanks even before I was born. My father was actually the only one in my area to have a saltwater take a long time ago as he was an avid scuba diver and collected his own items . Maybe it is something I just think should be in my house because I am a creature of habit after all but I actually enjoy water changes and other tank tasks as a form of therapy or mediration. I have a very hectic stressful job and sometimes it is just nice to not think about those things and do a water change or whatever else I am tasked with. Maybe there is actually something wrong with those of us who have had tanks for so long but I believe it helps me get through my day to day.....
What is better than coming home from a crappy long day at work, having an adult beverage, and just looking through the glass
 
Didn't we have this same thread from a Paul B post a month ago? It's a good topic either way.

.

Yes we did. It is here http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?154159-Why-do-so-many-people-get-out-of-the-Hobby

There is a very good reason for me to re-post this thread.
Actually there is no good reason I just forgot I already posted it. I was going to make up a really good reason but I got nothing.

As long as I am here I may as well discuss why I won't leave the hobby. I wouldn't know how to leave the hobby as I have never lived without being in the hobby. I sleep in my tank and make oatmeal from detritus.

My biggest problem with the tank is that I never have any problems. I can't fit any livestock, nothing ever gets sick and nothing dies except from old age. No problems equals boredom which is why I make rocks and all sorts of other silly stuff.
My Bangai Cardinals are near the end of their lifespan as they are getting cataracts and are old. In the sea Bangai Cardinals only live 2 or 3 years and maybe 4 in a tank. Mine are about that age, they stopped spawning and are on Social Security. When they go, I will replace them with something. I am just not sure what. I don't do tangs and angels because I find them boring but I love shrimpfish, pipefish, clingfish, mermaids and anything weird.

In a few weeks I will be speaking with you guys in Peabody. (looking forward to it) I will try not to speak in Swahilli so you understand me. My goal is to try to explain how to keep your fish healthy forever. It is very easy. Unfortunately, it is easier to let your fish get sick, then cure them. If you do that you can have fun posting on a disease thread. I hate those things and your fish (and you) should never get sick. That is my goal anyway. I have been doing this for over 60 years (but I only look to be in my 30s, my late 30s but 30s none the less) I may also join the hair club before I get there.

We have friends in Boston that we rarely see so we are excited to come. Last year our Boston friends came here to New York and wanted to go to the Trade Center Memorial. That day it rained more than it rained all year but we went anyway and they loved it.

This was that day.

 
A lot of people left the hobby due to moving, job changes, babies and puppies. Babies and puppies are very financially draining especially when babies become teenagers.


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This is the exact reason I have been in an out since 1998 Kids, homes, moves, Financial stresses etc just life right LOL
 
Those things are of course expensive. I have had my tank before I was married so my wife knew that she had no say in it. (She is only my starter wife even though we have been married for 44 years ;)
We lived in a tiny apartment. Most people have a garage larger than our first apartment but I had a tank in what would be called a dining room. It was actually a tiny walkway in front of the bathroom.
My salary as an apprentice electrician was something like $70.00 a week net. (I think the minimum wage was $1.25 an hour) I remember waiting at Penn Station in Manhattan on my way to work for someone to throw out a newspaper so I could read it.
Then we had our Daughter, Jodi. Her bassinett (which was mine when I was born) was on wheels and we would wheel her in front of the tank during the day and in the "Kitchen" at night (the kitchen was some cabinets on the wall in the "Living room".)
My fish ate table scraps, earthworms or, in the summer stuff I caught near the beach. Even in those conditions, my blue devils spawned.
I gradually made more money, and lost more hair and we moved 9 miles to Long Island where I took , my tank.

This is my "Baby" now. How cute is she?



Then as life progresses we got some of these.
Now instead of college we spend money on taking them to Sesame Place, toys, clothes and that sort of thing.



Greta learns about the ocean by looking at my tank and listening to it in sea shells. This is another reason I can't leave this hobby.

 
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Beautiful family you have there Paul! My family loves the hobby as well, thankfully. I will get text messages from my wife whenever a fish is doing something crazy, to ask if something is normal, etc. It makes the hobby truly enjoyable when the whole family enjoys it as well I think!

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I think people leave the hobby for many of the reasons listed but most of all because of burnout. Sometimes you just need a break. With any other interest or hobby, you can leave it alone or put it away for a while. It would be especially helpful to take a break if you just went through a hard time like a big algae outbreak or loss of your favorite fish. But you can't. You can't put your tank into the closet like your golf clubs and say I'll get back to it in a month or two when I'm feeling better. This inability to step away and take a breather causes significant burnout. Burnout is the deathnell for something that is supposed to be recreational and fun.
 
Reefkeeper2. I think you are correct as to the reasons many people leave. I don't play golf so I don't have a problem putting my clubs in a closet.:confused:
I have let the tank go on it's own for a week or two at a time when disaster strikes like the loss of my Mother and my wife's Mother a while later. Grand kids and wife with serious medical problems, car accidents. These things unfortunately, if you live long enough affect most people and are so mind numbing that a fish tank takes a back seat. The loss of a tank full of fish and corals is not even on the list of tragedies if a close family member is sick.
My tank, like me is old so it doesn't have any problems. I get bored and actually like when something goes wrong. Not glass breaking wrong but a malfunctioning light or pump. Maybe a fish getting pop eye or the heartbreak of psoriasis. Too many bristleworms or some such, not very serious occurrence. If it were not for these little annoyances, this would be a very boring hobby. If everything always lived no matter what, anyone could do this.
Right now my algae scrubber needs scraping. I designed the thing but it is a little of a pain to remove it to clean so I am designing a new one. I also have too many bristleworms and one of them ate my TV last night so I am building traps for them. The hermit crabs carry the traps around on their shoulders trying to get the clam meat out so the bristleworms never go in. I now have a weighted trap and will use that tonight. I find bristleworms are not much of a problem but if any crustacean like an arrow crab molts, they eat it. I like my arrow crabs better than my bristleworms so I want to remove the larger ones. This is one of the things that keeps my interest.
A few days ago my female bangai cardinal died. Bangai cardinals life span is only about 2 years in the sea and maybe 3 or 4 in a tank. Mine was that age so it is actually a good thing because she lived out her natural lifespan. I didn't believe such a large fish had such a short lifespan until I looked it up and was surprised to find that out.
I keep researching and inventing because I myself are nearing the end of my life. (not for 20+ years I hope) but my wife has MS and that is one disease that doesn't get better, only worse so I am not sure how long I can keep my tank going. But it has had a good run so far.



 
I am not leaving the hobby! Thanks Paul B will see you this weekend! I started live blood worms and I am converted! My Blue Hippo Tang who was just starting to get HLLE is now absolutely brilliant blue and all marks GONE! I am still going to do TTM before new fish go in my reef but no more prazipro unless it is needed! I am going to fatten up my fish in QT and ensure healthy and then master better fish nutrition. b/c I so rarely add fish to my reef (they do live YEARS) I am actually pretty bad at the QT process!

My hobby definitely took a back seat when the kids were little.. but now I have more time and am planning a seahorse tank. I am not bored b/c I am just learning how to have a better reef tank! thanks for the inspiration! I also started to keep a log book... so that in another 10 years I remember what I did and can document how old my fish are versus guessing they are 6 or 8 or 10 years old.

I am interested to learn how you source fish food at RYE beach? How to ensure no pathogens enter tank? I am interested in keeping a matted pair of mandarins.. looking to find a female green spotted dragonet.

Neptune

Neptune!
 
Neptune. I am not sure what you are calling bloodworms. Most bloodworms sold for fish food are insect larvae and not really worms.
I will see you this weekend. I left for Boston this morning as I am walking there.
I will tell you about Rye Beach when I see you.
This is the first page of my log book.


And another one.
 
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