Yet another ca reactor tuning thread

[Base]

Ive had this procal reactor set up for over two weeks and im having trouble keeping the alk up. Bubble count is 75bpm, flow rate is 55ml/min. i tried increasing the bubble count to 120bpm and i was able to maintain 3meq/l but my ph was slowly dropping(during the day when it should be rising) I adjusted and tested my params yesterday-Alk 4meq/l, cal 450ppm, mag 1400ppm. this morning- alk 2.2meq/l. I drip kalk at night though geo kalk reactor so ph is 8.1 at night to 8.2 at the end of the day.
i do not have an alk test sutable for testing the effluent but the ph is 6.6. i may be wrong but it seems that increasing the flowrate at this point will lower the alk of the efluent.
Any help would be appreciated
thanks
Patrick

 

[JohnK]

If the bubble count stays the same and you increase the effluent rate the PH in the reactor will go up some and you would likely see lower alk coming out.

IMO/IME your best bet is to adjust parameters manually with 2 part or whatever until your right in the range you want to maintain, then dial in the reactor to keep them there. Otherwise you'll be fighting to dial the reactor to something MORE than your tank's daily needs. Once it catches up, it will need to be dialed back.

Think of the reactor as a way to maintain levels, not raise them. Life will be much easier that way

 

[RayD]

If the bubble count stays the same and you increase the effluent rate the PH in the reactor will go up some and you would likely see lower alk coming out.

IMO/IME your best bet is to adjust parameters manually with 2 part or whatever until your right in the range you want to maintain, then dial in the reactor to keep them there. Otherwise you'll be fighting to dial the reactor to something MORE than your tank's daily needs. Once it catches up, it will need to be dialed back.

Think of the reactor as a way to maintain levels, not raise them. Life will be much easier that way

+1 on the statements above.

 

[Base]

I adjusted it yesterday. i can keep doing that but what is the next step. Raise both effluent and bubble count. ive been using seachem reef buffer to correct alk and raise ph. Sodium bicarbonate was dropping my ph way too much with the reactor running. I can add calcium chloride but my cal levels have not been dropping nearly as fast/ id even say not at all. adjusting the bubble count is a pita with the needle valve. im going to increase bubble to 90bpm and flow rate to70ml/min.

 

[JohnK]

I would leave the bubble count alone and make adjustments on the effluent rate if that is easier. Don't mess with both at the same time or it will never stabalize. Give it a good two days between adjustments, don't keep adjusting or you'll never get it right.

Personally I prefer to go by the effluent PH. For ex; set the bubble count, then fine tune the flow rate until the effluent PH is a steady 6.8 (or whatever your going for). Once you have that down, let it run a few days at least. If the levels are not being maintained where you want them, then increase the bubble count a bit and dial the effluent rate again to get the desired PH again.

*I'm describing how to tune focusing on the effluent rate because you said that the needle valve for the CO2 is hard to deal with.

 

[Liam]

Its a balancing act to find the correct ratio of co2 and effluent drip.
Every set up will be different.
What type of media are you using?
Raising the co2 and lowering the effluent may drop you to 6.5 ph although the effluent rate will be lower it will have a higher alkalinity.This will also have less impact on the overall ph of your system.
Certain media dissolves better at a certain ph.
as mentioed you will nedd 24 hours to see the difference

 

[Base]

Im using arm media. ive noticed that incresing the effluent had less impact on ph. when i initially set it up the directions said to start with low flowrate and it dropped my ph until i raised the effluent to 40 ml/min at 60bpm. i have not yet been able to maitain alk except for a couple days when i had 120bpm at 40ml/min but like i said it was crushing my ph.

 

[JohnK]

120 bpm at 40 ml / min is WAY too much Co2.

As Liam said, it's a balance between flow rate and Co2. If you have tons of co2 (120bpm) and little flow (40 ml / min) the PH is going to get far lower than you want it in the reactor and probably not do any good.

As I suggested before, if you measure the PH in, or coming out of the reactor it will give you a pretty good idea of how close you are to acheiving that balance you need between flow and Co2. Get the PH right and either the reactor will be dialed in, or you will have to increase flow then re-dial it in (if it's not keeping up).

It can be a real headache at first, particularly if your in a hurry.

Also, keep in mind, if your ca and alk arent' balanced when you start, this can get a lot harder. For ex if you have Ca at 440 and alk at 6dkh, it's going to be almost impossible to correct those levels with a Ca reactor.

I'd suggest setting it at about 50 ml / min and 50 Bpm, and leave it like that for 2 days, then test the PH coming out. See where that brings you....

If it's ARM fine you want a PH of about 6.7-6.9, ARM course can be lower, more like 6.5-6.8. If after those two days your PH is higher than the numbers I just suggested, then increase the bubble count slightly and give it another 2 days. If the PH goes lower, then increase the effluent slightly and give it two days. Once you've got a steady and proper PH, use 2 part to correct the tank levels, then measure Ca and alk every couple days and see if it's keeping up.

 

[Cheetos]

What are you checking the effluent pH with?

 

[JohnK]

If your asking me, drips into a tiny cup with a PH probe in it.

If your asking Base, I don't know and I probably look silly for replying

 

[Base]

OK guys sorry I'm still here trying to figure this out. I'm at PH 6.5 (lab grade ph probe(brand new)), bpm 85, flowrate, 30 ml/m. Tank PH is 7.96(too low!!)just before the lights come on.
Seems too be maintaining alk. what can i do to increase tank ph?

 

[delta]

Drip it into yoour protien skimmer. you don't need to be so technical about the actually PH effluent PH. Just set the bubble count and adjust until it maintains the ALK. your done.
Then deal with the tank PH issue

 

[JohnK]

85 bpm and 30 ml/min flow sounds like a ton of Co2 for that rate of water. If the alk is keeping up, I'd try to back off on the co2 until you see the alk not keeping up.

How do you have that probe set up on the effluent?

As Delta said, the tanks demand is the most important factor. I advised going by the PH because that's how I prefer to do it, but it's not the only way.

 

[marine mike]

I would agree with Jimmy on this one. Seems like a lot of co2 for that amount of effluent. Would seem to me to deliver a very low ph and a lot of alk/calc each day. The 7.96 in the morning is certainly on the low side but not into the dangerous range by any means. I scrape that number on occasion in the morning also, but I had to go to Kalk dripping to adjust ph once my skimmer was dialed in. Now range is usually 8.05 to 8.25 or so. I also agree to just get the alk dialed in properly and you should be ok. Especially if you end up dripping Kalk, unless your calcium usage is off the charts it will stay within range well if your alk stays up well.

 

[Base]

I dont have the probe on the effluent. I have one in my tank. I fill a shot glass with effluent and dunk the probe.
Im dripping kalk with geo reactor.
I set bpm at 40 last night after correcting levels again. Is it normal for the bubbles to change from 40 big bpm to a steady stream of tiny bubbles? Am I to assume that the amount of co2 to the reactor hasn't changed?
Also, the flowrate seems to slightly drop off over time. I'm guessing that has something to do with the small media?

 

[Base]

Another note- Every time the co2 is on for any length of time i start getting this brown bubbly snot on my purple corraline.

 

[Jim Tansey]

What pressure are you running at the output of your pressure regulator, is it holding constant? Changes to the reactor should be made slowly adjustments like effluent flow and bubble count should be evaluated over many days, you may just need to slow down a bit.

Jim

 

[Base]

the pressure was 14 psi. I lowered to 10 per directions. would that make a huge difference.

 

[Sherri]

I have never used a reactor, don't really know how they work, know all of the pieces -- just not clear on the thing. It is probably simple but at this point I have not figured it out but need to as I now have one and will be setting it up. Anyway, I went searching on the net to see what I could read and I found this. Don't know if it will help you ...

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/reactor.html

 

[JohnK]

Another note- Every time the co2 is on for any length of time i start getting this brown bubbly snot on my purple corraline.

You might want to do an image search for "dinoflagellates", quite nasty to deal with, thrive in a low PH.