Matt L.
Non-member
The reason there's a tang police, and not a large angelfish police, is that tangs grow quite rapidly to large sizes.
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Tang to tank size
- Thread starter johnnyb
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Matt L.
Non-member
They may already be close to their full size. IMO, these tangs are ideal for "smaller" tanks. The blue hippo will be fine for a while too.
I do consider myself to be a member of the tang police, but I am not writing here to chastise you, or anyone else.
I don't believe that tangs* are better off left in the wild -- tangs are not endangered, and are prey fish, meaning even a suboptimal aquarium would still absolve them of many of the rigors and stresses of daily survival.
Matt:
* Certain species should not be collected in the numbers they are, as nothing but the largest aquariums can house them.
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johnnyb
Non-member
I should have mentioned the tangs u have are far from full grown the yellow is only 3 inches and the purple is 4 inches. I don't feel you are chastising me i started this post for this type of discussion. I would like to see this at least start to end the attacks that turn nasty. Maybe I will do some sort of study on the tangs I have and watch as they grow and what happens with the baby one I have in my 54.
Matt L.
Non-member
You'll never stop the attacks. As I said upthread, the tang police have been around since the beginning of the hobby. Or at least since the beginning of reef message boards in the late 90's.
While I do consider myself a part of the tang police, I also don't believe there is as much of an animal welfare crisis in tang ownership as some like to make out.
As long as your fish are healthy, they're fine. Period.
Matt
Tangs should live MUCH longer than a few years..,
Matt L.
Non-member
Tangs have a lifespan of 10 to 15 years.
Tangs I placed in 4 foot tanks died prematurely, often after several years of appearing healthy and happy.
This led me to believe they really weren't.
Matt
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johnnyb
Non-member
Have you ever lost any other fish you have had for years that appeared happy and healthy? I had a clown fish for 2 years that was awesome. It was growing well and was in and out of an anenome all the time and one day he just died. No reason found everything else in the tank was fine.
The River Reef
Non-member
We need to look at averages and not single fish... Here is a cross comparison of the 2 mentioned. I would love for some people to post the lifespan they have on either fish. I have never owned a tang and had to give away my clown recently so I can't comment.
Average Tang wild lifespan = 10-15
Average Tang aquarium lifespan = ?-?
Average Clown wild lifespan = 6-10
Average Clown aquarium lifespan = ?-?
Average Tang wild lifespan = 10-15
Average Tang aquarium lifespan = ?-?
Average Clown wild lifespan = 6-10
Average Clown aquarium lifespan = ?-?
I had a yellow tang I bought from another BRS member that lived for 3 years in a 90 gallon plus 2 years in a 125g, so it was at least 5 years old and more. He died suddently one day.
I also had a blue tang that came from BRS members that lived for 4 years and I killed it accidentaly.
I had a purple tang that I was told lived 8 year in a 90 gallon before I bought it. It lived in my 125g for four years and died one day. So it was ~12 years old.
A sailfin died last month which was ~6 years old. ( He might live longer in a bigger tank?)
For clownfish, I have many all came from BRS members. I lost several due to jumping, none died inside a tank. I have a big maroon clown that is at least 7 to 8 years old and going strong. All clownfish are in 65 to 125g tanks except a pair of them in a 33 gallon long.
The River Reef
Non-member
We need to look at averages and not single fish... Here is a cross comparison of the 2 mentioned. I would love for some people to post the lifespan they have on either fish. I have never owned a tang and had to give away my clown recently so I can't comment.
Average Tang wild lifespan = 10-15
Average Tang aquarium lifespan = 6.75
Average Clown wild lifespan = 6-10
Average Clown aquarium lifespan = 7-8
Okay there is a good start thanks
Where are those numbers coming from? I thought clowns were capable of living more like 25 yrs?
I agree that real data / science would be fantastic, but how much is really out there? Who's going to fund long term research, and how on earth would anyone be able to accurately keep track of wild fish? Also how to sort out slow death due to stress and poor diet (captivity) vs getting eaten (in the wild)?
I agree that real data / science would be fantastic, but how much is really out there? Who's going to fund long term research, and how on earth would anyone be able to accurately keep track of wild fish? Also how to sort out slow death due to stress and poor diet (captivity) vs getting eaten (in the wild)?
I think the tang policy should focus more on the aquarium trade business:
http://www.forthefishes.org/Reef_Animal_Welfare_ZG5L.html
That is one reason I adopt wild caught fish from fellow reefers instead of buying from store.
Tank raised fish should be the future of this hobby.
Also take a look at this:
http://www.forthefishes.org/Home_Page.html
http://www.forthefishes.org/Reef_Animal_Welfare_ZG5L.html
That is one reason I adopt wild caught fish from fellow reefers instead of buying from store.
Tank raised fish should be the future of this hobby.
Also take a look at this:
http://www.forthefishes.org/Home_Page.html
When you want to buy a pretty wild caught fish, think about how many fish died in the process of getting this one to you. If you must have it, give it a good home and the best care you can provide. Also, only buy from vendors that care about and QT their fish, such as LiveAquaria.
By the way, I won't only relate tank size to the "happiness" of fish, water quality, food and your love and care play more imortant role than just the tank size alone.
IMHO, not all the tangs are big swimers, in my own experience, I dont see yellow tang and hippo tang dashing around just for the heck of it, they are more focusing on glazing the rocks.
By the way, I won't only relate tank size to the "happiness" of fish, water quality, food and your love and care play more imortant role than just the tank size alone.
IMHO, not all the tangs are big swimers, in my own experience, I dont see yellow tang and hippo tang dashing around just for the heck of it, they are more focusing on glazing the rocks.
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I've read tangs can live to 40 years in the wild. Unfortunately, the average is far less than 1 year after capture...
"An estimated 99 percent of aquarium fish collected from reefs off countries such as the Philippines and Indonesia die within a year, reports Bob Fenner, a retired collector who has written about the trade."
"An estimated 99 percent of aquarium fish collected from reefs off countries such as the Philippines and Indonesia die within a year, reports Bob Fenner, a retired collector who has written about the trade."
The River Reef
Non-member
I qouted the wild from above for tangs... the clownfish is from national geographic, which I assume to be from accurate info?
I just averaged the feedback we got so far for the aquarium data... if enough people post some real data we could at least take a stab at some numbers. I guess I like numbers as opposed to all the ranting and assuming?
The River Reef
Non-member
http://animals.nationalgeographic.com/animals/fish/clown-anemonefish/
Here to be specific regarding the clownfish...
Here to be specific regarding the clownfish...
I've read tangs can live to 40 years in the wild. Unfortunately, the average is far less than 1 year after capture...
"An estimated 99 percent of aquarium fish collected from reefs off countries such as the Philippines and Indonesia die within a year, reports Bob Fenner, a retired collector who has written about the trade."
"An estimated 99 percent of aquarium fish collected from reefs off countries such as the Philippines and Indonesia die within a year, reports Bob Fenner, a retired collector who has written about the trade."
The River Reef
Non-member
I agree totally! Like I said above, I just can't tolerate the "I paid for it, so I can do as I please with it attitude" that comes with some in this hobby. That doesn't fly with cats, dogs, birds; why should it apply with fish? And yes, we should be at the forefront in educating and advising proper care for fish. Not just for our enjoyment but also for their well being
The River Reef
Non-member
All good points and probably why it doesn't exist... But I think someone with the right connections could at least compare the different aquarium environments and the impact the have large scale... We just need a group with extra money and a willing keeper to try it out. Heck this club is capable of doing small scale research on the subject. Think of the PR we could grab from it also...
Ehhheemmm... hint hint wishes his idea doesn't sound so ludicrous
