Limited Edition, I don't Get it!

[smpross]

Ok, I admit that I might be opening pandora's box here, but I just don't get the whole "Designer Corals", Limited Edition, Tyree, Tubbs, idea. So this is what I get from it...


If the coral comes from a certain person's tank, it is worth more money? Because they are a brighter color? I understand that rare items tend to be more expensive, but usually items are rare because they are no longer propogating (Such as Art...You can't just go to the store and buy a new Picasso). When I think of items that are limited edition, it generally means that in 10 years, there won't be MORE of them.. In Fact, with time, there should be less! And they should go up in value. But with the corals, chances are that more people are going to get them, so they will go down in value. So what is the difference between a crayola frag and a "Tubbs Crayola" frag. My guess is that several of the regular Crayola frags came from a "Tubbs" piece and the owner does not even know it.

Look, I am all for allowing people to spend their money any way they want, but this just sounds like one hell of a racket... So I have decided to join it... At the next meeting I will be offering SMPROSS aptasia and SMPROSS Algea... You can reserve your frag now... I will only be giving away one per month... You really don't want to miss this opprotunity. We will start the bidding at $50 each.

All I can say is... PT Barnum was RIGHT!

Sorry for the rambling on... Maybe someone can explain it to me.

Scott

 

[marco67]

There are some corals that are extraordinary but in the end even with those it comes down to
Marketing









Oh and for some Photo shop

 

[Jim Tansey]

It is all marketing!!!!!!!! and some people fall for it, I have only seen one Tubbs Crayola live but I have several lower end corals that have much more color and growth form, unless the Tubbs was pointed out to me I would not even notice it.

Jim

 

[customclimates]

At the next meeting I will be offering SMPROSS aptasia and SMPROSS Algea... You can reserve your frag now... I will only be giving away one per month... You really don't want to miss this opprotunity. We will start the bidding at $50 each.

All I can say is... PT Barnum was RIGHT!

Sorry for the rambling on... Maybe someone can explain it to me.

Scott

LOL! Limited frags starting at $65.00 per 1/4 inch!

 

[smpross]

LOL! Limited frags starting at $65.00 per 1/4 inch!

Sounds great to me! I am also looking to sell SMPROSS ICK... As many of you know it take years to properly propogate just the right parasite

 

[stevenp]

I'm with you, Scott. I don't buy into the hype. Another thing that drives me nuts are all the stupid zoanthid names. Gorilla Nipples? Purple People Eaters? Jeesh

<end rant>

 

[JohnK]

I say it's marketing AND market postion / having a name people have heard.

Take Tyree. He's been keeping amazing tanks for years and there are pics of his tanks shown in many of the most popular books in the hobby - who hasn't seen pics of the infamous purple rimmed monti cap (that's dead now). Once that name was well established/well known and recognized in the reefing community it was worth big marketing $$$$$

At this point Steve T could poop in his tank and sell it for $75 per 1/4". Is that poop worth that, no. Can he get that, YES.

And how about zoa names? I have one brand name in mind. I had one colony, split it up and grew it into many colonies and placed several in varying conditions - each looks VERY different.

IMO it's all BS and total nonsense, but then again it also makes for a sort of common language. I have a green polyped toadstool that looks similar to the Tyree toadstool (In pics at least - Repeat! for online buyers "in pics", I don't know about in person?) that's worth $10 a frag and I have several frags laying around since there isn't much demand for the "jimmyj green polyped toadstool". People will pay big $ for the Tyree version, but not the jimmyj version. With the joe schmoe in another state buying an expensive frag online my name means nothing, but Tyree's does. Is Tyree's toadstool more spectacular? Probably "yes", but I just wonder how much? IIRC Tyree is out west and with his well known name and personal contacts, I bet he might even get choice picks from some of the importers out there? Maybe he can get the brightest blue acro that's come in during the past 6 months?

BUT!!!! in the end, not many people make $ off of Limted edition/brand names by propogating them, EXCEPT those who make up the original names and attach them to particular coral morphs. Everyone else just pays way toooo much for some cool looking corals.

What makes for the enjoyment of this hobby? Having brand names for every coral in your tank, or having a healthy and thriving tank with (maybe?) non spectacular corals. Pleasure in paying $75 for a name and maybe better color, or pleasure in having a very healthy coral grow for yrs and produce many captive prop offspring? Idealy the expensive brand name frag will eventually grow out and produce many equally valuable frags. Problem is, it doesn't work that way. Some imported acro's have amazing colors, but just don't do all that well in captivity. Some LE corals do do well in captivity, but also some don't. In the end, if they do do well, then everyone who paid $75 for a frag will probably do well keeping them. What's that mean? It means that the LE coral will, at best, become a lower value common coral when everyone has success with them and produces frags.

In the end it's a matter of a few questions;
-Is it worth a bunch of extra $ to invest in something that is (probably/maybe?) more likely to be exceptional looking?
-How much do you believe that a name brings/gaurentees something special?
-Are you out to make a buck, or just enjoy a nice reeftank?
-How much enjoyment will having designer names for everything vs not, will you gain?

In the very end,
I have corals with names, and corals without names. I like them all the same and assign more or less equal value to all, but if it has a name the value becomes inflated and that fact makes me a little ill, but it also brings in 2-4times the $ if I sell a frag.

Is it all wrong?
Is it all just fact?

I say yes on both....

 

[dz6t]

man, why why why?

This has been going over and over again.

By the way, the purple rim cap is dead?

 

[smpross]

I personally don't think it has been discussed enough... Because too many people still buy into the hype!

Jimmy, I agree with a lot of what you said. Being a Psychologist, I know that it is human nature. But I must admit that it is disturbing to see that people don't think for themselves and make a decision based on the data that they have.

Scott

 

[dz6t]

Now for real, Limited Edition corals normally have these advantages:

1. They are most likely very colorful (or they won't get choosen by Steve T)
2. They are hardy (Most likely they are several generation away from the wild collected, more than likely adjusted to reef tank)
3. They are fast grower or there woud be no $ benefit for Steve T.
4. They are more than likely to be pest free if get from Steve T himself.
5. They made you feel better to have them in your tank.

 

[JohnK]

"By the way, the purple rim cap is dead?"

From what I've read/heard, Tyree's pruple rim that's in all the books is long dead. IIRC, the story follows that leng sy got a frag and grew it out but may or may not have lost it also (I have read that it is no longer with us either). After that, there may or not still be frags of the original colony (in the pics in the books) that made it. Again, IIRC, no one can really verify a true descendent of that Tyree colony, but hundreds if not thousands of reefers claim to own it?


SMP,
I'm a social worker, maybe somehow the DSM has gotten to both of us

 

[JohnK]

Dong, I saw your last post after I posted my reply...


I have to question some of the questions/assumptions there. How much is Tyree a conissour of fine corals for propogation, vs how much is he a chop shop for fine looking imports? I have no idea, but bright color doesn't necessarily equate to fast grower or hardy aquarium friendly corals?

Not saying that I think your wrong, just saying I wouldn't place any face value to the names without experience to back it op.

 

[JeremyR]

It makes me crazy when people ask me what the "name" is of various corals in the shop.. all of those silly "special" zoas have been for sale since the beginning of the hobby in vast numbers, and NOBODY wanted them except newbies because they were too easy and below experienced reefkeepers level. I bet if Tyree came out with a LE green star polyps a whole bunch of people would line up to buy it for stupid money.

 

[dz6t]

Hi Jimmy, bright color has nothing to do with growth rate.

But for those Tyree LE coral which has a long waiting list (sometimes three years), they are more than likely tank raised (or should we say tank adjusted).

A lot of Tyree's LE corals growth reasonablely fast and that make them not Limited at all. Also, if one act like a collector for LE corals, he/she will find out it is the worest "investment" after all.

 

[dz6t]

It makes me crazy when people ask me what the "name" is of various corals in the shop.. all of those silly "special" zoas have been for sale since the beginning of the hobby in vast numbers, and NOBODY wanted them except newbies because they were too easy and below experienced reefkeepers level. I bet if Tyree came out with a LE green star polyps a whole bunch of people would line up to buy it for stupid money.

Purple wallet eatter, for example.

 

[JohnK]

Well, if it doesn't have a name if must be plastic, right? I saw a pic on RC, you don't have it, you must not really be a reef store................

 

[Greg Hiller]

>Is Tyree's toadstool more spectacular? Probably "yes", but I just wonder how much?<

FWIW, I stopped by Sanjay's on the way home from Macna and saw what he told me was the Tyree green polyped leather next to another green polyped leather, which I think was the 'ORA' green polyped leather. FWIW, I've seen the ORA leather everywhere recently, and someone in the club gave me one too. The Tyree leather was in fact much more impressive. That said, I agree in general with the fact that much of this is hype. If you like a coral purchase it for what it looks like, not for the name attached to it. At the same time, if you've seen a particular coral in someone tanks and they have particular 'name' attached to it, and you want THAT coral (but they are not trading/selling it), and someone can trace their coral back to that one, then I think there's some value to getting that coral since it will likely have the look you want. Still, there are plenty of corals that likely look nearly identical, but might have come from difference sources.

Still, no matter what you think, you have to hand it to Tyree....he's a marketing genius.

>people ask me what the "name" is of various corals in the shop.. <

That's funny, I was standing next to a tank at Macna with some Zoas in it and someone ask me if I knew what their name was.....I replied...sure...Zoanthus sp. !

 

[smpross]

Now for real, Limited Edition corals normally have these advantages:

1. They are most likely very colorful (or they won't get choosen by Steve T)
2. They are hardy (Most likely they are several generation away from the wild collected, more than likely adjusted to reef tank)
3. They are fast grower or there woud be no $ benefit for Steve T.
4. They are more than likely to be pest free if get from Steve T himself.
5. They made you feel better to have them in your tank.

I find that the above is true for many BRS member's coral and they don't charge an arm and a leg... The difference is marketing. Greg, you are right, Steve is a marketing genius. That said, it may not be good for the hobby as a whole. If you look at the mission statement of the BRS, how does Steve's marketing apply to the mission statement of the BRS... I feel that it does not. In some cases, he is doing a disservice by saying that colorful corals are more valuable than regular corals

BTW- I still have the SMPROSS frags available '

Scott

 

[Greg Hiller]

>That said, it may not be good for the hobby as a whole. <

Maybe, maybe not. The whole hype thing might get people more excited about the hobby. I know when I used to collect fossils I was totally fixated on finding a 'rare' fossil at whatever locality we were collecting.

>If you look at the mission statement of the BRS, how does Steve's marketing apply to the mission statement of the BRS... <

Sure, but Tyree's not a BRS member. We had him speak once, but we kind of decided we'd not have him again. There was a little too much 'marketing' involved.

 

[dz6t]

The fact is, Tyree is not super rich even though he is very good at marketing.

But, Tyree does put in a lot of efforts in coral propagation he does share a lot of his knowledge with reefing communities. We need to give hime credit for that.

Also, last time Tyree visit BRS, he donated nice stuffs to the club and gave a nice talk.