Limited Edition, I don't Get it!

[JohnK]

"Again, what is in a NAME? Has this person done something that makes the coral better for the customer?"

I keep seeing people assume that the name equals something in terms of the coral being better. What's the assurance of this value? If it's color, yes you can see it how it looks now and hope that the color stays that nice. If it's a well known and traded morph that's been established in the hobby for a period of time, then yes, there is some value that can be assigned because you do know that the color will most likely stay stable and the coral is at least reasonably stable. Does a name assure me that every named coral has any of these qualities? Is there any thing at all that I can rely on with those assumptions with something that's not super well known, or not coming from someone I know personally? (not saying he does, but...) What's to say that Tyree himself doesn't cherry pick some cool colonies at the importer, hack them up, sell all but one or two "frags", then sell it as a LE? Is all this assured, or is it all implied, or is it all simple marketing with no substance behind it?

*Picture the icon of beating a dead horse deader.....

 

[JayM]

I bought mine because I liked the color, and because I know it was aquacultured. The name was irrelevant......the cost was, well, higher. For me it's one step deeper into the addiction, because I just spent more on a frag than on any other coral in the tank. It's been a progression from putting any (many) corals to being much more selective......

 

[Rays]

Who give's a rat's ptui, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Dogs, cats, stamps, coins, muscle cars, sports memorabillia, it's what value you place on something, not someone else. Cripes, give it up.

 

[dz6t]

. It's been a progression from putting any (many) corals to being much more selective......

Jay, that is the right way to go!

Being selective is the key to keep the hobby successful. You can't possiblely have every beautiful coral on the market and stay $-wise healthy.

 

[sbertomen]

Just one more thing on the dog analogy. When I bought my lab because of her lineage, I got papers which said so. You can purchase named corals, because you like them, but their 'authenticity' is based only on the word of the seller, maybe on posted pictures. We can't really verify a lineage can we?

 

[dz6t]

Just one more thing on the dog analogy. When I bought my lab because of her lineage, I got papers which said so. You can purchase named corals, because you like them, but their 'authenticity' is based only on the word of the seller, maybe on posted pictures. We can't really verify a lineage can we?

No we can't and there is no need to, Coral morph dramatically under different condition. For example, Zoas are known to have color morph. The infamous Puple People Eatter were unattractive brown polyps when they arrived from the ocean.

Some zoas are stay true to color like the Tub's blue zoas.

Posted picture is not a good way to identify coral either.

No one can produce paper saying that the corals they are selling are Tyree LE.

On the other hand, i have not yet seen a dull Tyree LE coral. All Tyree LE coral or at least they were claimed to be are fantastic in color.

 

[dz6t]

That being said, enjoy the hobby and don't try to be a coral collector.

People who paid high price for Xenia knows that but some just don't learn (just kidding)

 

[chew*]

"Again, what is in a NAME? Has this person done something that makes the coral better for the customer?"

Yes actually they have, They coral farmers have paid upteen amount of money for very similar wild corals, weeded out the less colorful to give you a guaranteed vibrant in color coral.

They also give you the "recipe" to obtain the same colors. If you aren't seeing that color in your tank your not following the "recipe"

As far as not being able to understand the dog analogy, well its because you are refusing to understand it.

The truer a bloodline is in a dog the more they are worth.....Truer bloodlines exhibit better "lines" "color" "size" of the breed. Not really much different than what coral farmers do.........or anyone else in the buisness of selling pets,animals etc etc.

And as dz6t said, you DON'T have to be a rare exotic coral collector..........Just stick to the basic stuff.

 

[JohnK]

Chew, not trying to argue, just chat here......

FWIW your response to my statement seems to me to make my point. How do you know all this?

I would agree that, say, Greg hiller would be a good example of what your saying about coral farmers doing something positive, but I won't give that credit to someone I don't know or have exp with. The guy on E-bay selling names with bad pics doesn't get any recognition from me. Greg on the other hand, would get total recognition or appreciation from me.

I'm not saying I think Tyree is a con artsist, he does have a good rep for what he does. I'm more thinking about things like some of the the lame and boring looking zoa's that have gotten names and now fetch good $, but are nothing but average looking common nothing zoa's.

I blame tyree for doing a lot to create the possibility for a market for named but lame corals to fetch big $ pruely out of marketing. In the past getting the special color was worth maybe twice as much for a frag. Now it's more like 10-20 times inflation in value. Didn't Tyree have a lot to do with setting that inflated price precedent?

I guess in the end maybe I resent the shift in things from - if you find an exceptional frag, you pay a little more and it's a great score which will hopefully be propogated and shared with firends, - to - If you have enough $ to spend you can score an exceptional collection of livestock quickly and with (maybe) little effort. (or get burned on half of it and end up with a nice average collection)

This horse is really really dead, I better just kick it a few more times (commentary on my own comments here )

 

[chew*]

Just one more thing on the dog analogy. When I bought my lab because of her lineage, I got papers which said so. You can purchase named corals, because you like them, but their 'authenticity' is based only on the word of the seller, maybe on posted pictures. We can't really verify a lineage can we?

Sure you can, I went to a few reefers houses that had 2 pink lemonades. One was tyree's one was atlantis IIRC. when asked to point out the tyree I nailed the right one every time. Fairly simple its the one thats more vibrant in color.

Same goes for other stuff.

Tyree green polyps toadstool has very long polyp extension and is a brighter green. The knockoff has shorter polyps and isn't as vibrant.

Tubs crayola has a peculiar growth tip thus the name. Compare the tip to a crayola crayon.

I could go on but If you become a "collector" or are trying to"collect" you will learn along the way.

 

[chew*]

Jimmy what your really mad at is the guy who pays $100 for a frag grows it out and sells multiple frags for the same $100 he paid more than quintupling his original investment.

Why not buck the trend and do the opposite? Grow it out and sell frags for a very reasonable amount of money, thus helping to drive the prices down......

 

[JohnK]

I hear what your saying, but that's really not my gripe.

Personally I keep common low value leathers and such along with RBTA's (that I don't sell) and a variety of zoa's some of which have names and some don't. I haven't brought home a new coral in at least 6 months, and the last before that was another 6 months or more longer back. I'm more interested in encouraging super hardy and survivable corals, over just good looking corals that might not do as well in captivity.

The most I'll sell any frag for is $20, but most that I sell/trade are in the $5-15 range. I'm more interested in thriving and adaptable corals than super colletiables. Sharing livestock over making cash.

"Jimmy what your really mad at is the guy who pays $100 for a frag grows it out and sells multiple frags for the same $100 he paid more than quintupling his original investment."

Actually I don't blame that guy. More like I feel bad for the newbie who buys that potentiality, but then gets burned because by the time he has the frags to sell, they'll only be worth $25 anyway

Did that newbie get taken advantage of? I think maybe?

 

[chew*]

Actually I don't blame that guy. More like I feel bad for the newbie who buys that potentiality, but then gets burned because by the time he has the frags to sell, they'll only be worth $25 anyway

Did that newbie get taken advantage of? I think maybe?

Maybe that "newbie" dished out the $$$ with the sole intention of selling frags for $20 to drive the price down to begin with.

 

[JohnK]

I guess that could be. If so that's cool of them.

 

[dz6t]

Maybe that "newbie" dished out the $$$ with the sole intention of selling frags for $20 to drive the price down to begin with.

Power to that newbie. Now, I hope he/she has the skill to keep the coral alive with a most likely un-matured tank.

 

[dz6t]

Look at the LE green polpys toad stool, for $60 a frag from tyree, the waiting list goes into 2009.

http://www.reeffarmers.com/limitedsarchophyton.htm

 

[Alex]

I know for me when I bought my first 100$ frag my reasoning wasn't I'm going to be able to break off a piece of this and make my money back it was I'm going to be able to frag this and get some of those other corals I've been drooling over. If you can bring something new to the club your going to be able to trade it for other desirable corals that people don't have.

The fact that the frags will drop in price over time to me isn't a negative. Maybe when you sell your first frag your going to get a little more and later it's probable going to come down in price significantly. I think the Idaho Grape is a good example of this. I don't think the person who bought the initial frag looses because they now have a colony while the person who waited for it to come down in price has just a frag. They paid a premium to get it early and in a couple of years they will have a beautiful colony while others will just be getting frags.

I'd also like to echo the thoughts of some others who have said that they have gotten much more selective in what they have put into their tanks. When I started out in the hobby it was oh that's cool I'll throw that in my tank. As time went by and the tank filled up I started to want to become much more selective. I no longer just wanted to have a box of cool stuff but a box of water that had colors and shapes that actually offset each other and looked good next to each other. That meant I was looking for specific characteristics. As I filled my tank this became much more of an issue. Space was at a premium so my selection criteria changed. Unfortunately after a bunch of moves and a few tank crashes I now have plenty of space.

On a side note the only reason that there is a difference between a pure bred dog with papers and a coral with a word of mouth history is that there are no equivalents of the kennel clubs in the reefing hobby. In both cases your paying for genetics. By the way the papers your dog came with are only as good as the person who sold you the dog. Even with the more reputable clubs like the AKC who's to say that just because I had a couple of pure bred dogs registered with them that I just sold you a dog that actually came from those two dogs. Same is true with corals there has to be a level of trust with whom ever your getting them from.

 

[Liam]

to each their own

 

[SteveDola]

to each their own

exactly. dnt whine about people that buy aston martins and try and tell them a chevy does the same thing.

you know what I dont get? why people complain about things like this.

 

[dz6t]

In areas that don't have a reefing community like BRS, people are very happy paying for LE corals as well as regular Tyree frags ranging from $15 to $30 (if you actually look into Tyree's web site, he sells $15 to $30 frag along side the more expensive LE frags).

Just like someone once told me that if a retailer was not selling CD-RW discs Free After Rebate, the retailer was robbing people blind.