Trying to decide and need advice

[Flame Angel]

Well I have been out of saltwater for a while and do not know all your abbreviations. Now that my kids are older I would like to get back into the game. I know things have changed over the past few years in methodology.

We have a 55 gallon tanks and I'm thinking the following:

Convert from gravel to sand. Do I go with live or stay no living?
Go with live rock or not. or mix the non living rock with some living rock?
Do I go Fiji or Caribbean?
Do I really need a protein skimmer? Possibly
I'd like to have some soft corals, anemones and some fish.
So the big question is lighting as all we have now is regular florescent.
I'm being told to go with T5 and it sounds like T5 will provide what I need based upon the forum.
The question is which brand, type etc.?
I do not feel like spending another $1,000.00 just to get back into the hobby and would like to keep it under $400.00 before I start purchasing living items.

Your thoughts, opinions and suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks you,

 

[sciknen]

Get some dead rock. I got mine from marco I think he's got fiji. Its great.and you can just seed it with some live. For sand just buy some online I got mine from dr fosters and its fine. I also have a 55g. Go with t5s cheaper in the long run.. You can probably pick up a nice used one on here for pretty cheap.. Get a skimmer def needed. Octopuses work great and are inexpensive..

 

[molsen187]

i have a 55g also and i use the aqua c remora hang on back skimmer. i bought it used on the for sale forum here for like 70 i think. it works awesome.
for the sand i would get some argonite sand from marco(one of the club sponsors)he has a deal going right now that you can get 160lbs for 99. he has other deals but that is a great one the sand is super white and super fine.i used about 120 in my tank and got a 5-6 inch sand bed. this sand is not live, you def want live sand. what i did and a lot of other people do to save money is use the argonite sand and then seed it with sand from another members established tank. it takes some time for all your sand to go live but it saves you a ton of money.
with the rock i would once again go to marco and get 40 or so pounds of his dry rock. much cheaper than live rock and you can use it as your base and then see that with a couple of really nice peices of live rock that you can get at a local fish store(lfs) or from online. once again takes a little while longer but saves a ton of money. also you can look at the for sale forum here and find some really good deals on live rock.
i would go with t5s with individual reflectors. i have an odeyessa(not sure if i spelled it right)but i would go with another brand cause it gets kind of hot but it does the job. aqualite is a brand i see a lot of people use. i'm sure someone can give you a good light that knows more than i.if you keep your eyes open for deals on this forum and your local craigslist you could probably stay within your budget. its best to spend the money now so you don't have to spend more later if you want to upgrade(which everyone does)especially with the 55. i like my 55 but you are very limited to what you can do since they are not that wide of a tank. if you buy something inferior cause it 100 or so cheaper you will end up spending that again and then some when you have to upgrade. i have some questions for you too.
are you going to be using ro/di water?you really should it the only way to go you can get it at your lfs or you can buy your own unit to make it right in your house.
are you going to be using a sump/refugium? i don't use a sump cause of lack of room but they are great to hide unsightly equipment and to add water volume to your tank. the refugium is a must in my opinion in the sump is the best but i have a hang on the back(hob)refugium from cpr i got here on the forum and it works awesome for what i need it for.
i think thats it for now sorry about the long post. if you have any questions i'll do my best to try and answer them and so will everyone else on this site. there are people with a ton more knowledge than i so i'm sure they will chime in as well. the most important rule is to patient nothing happens fast in salt water. welcome back to the addiction

 

[Flame Angel]

? why so much sand? I'm told you only need about 1". Is there a purpose to have more?
RO- Reverse osmosis, type of water purification
RO/DI- Reverse osmosis, followed by deionisation, type of water purification
Never used these before. I use to just run the tap water through the brita water filter and mix it with the salt. Does this pull all the heavy metals and impurities out of the water? If so, whats that go for? I can only imagine?
At the risk of sounding stupid? sump/refugium. I'm using W/D.

I've been looking around, because I'd really like to bump up to 125, 220 or 300 gallon. I have the room, but not the spare cash right now which limits me.

 

[molsen187]

i have a deep sand bed it helps with denitrification of the tank and i wanted a bluespotted jawfish at some point so they need the deep sand bed. shallow sand beds don't help at all with denitrification. you can get your own ro/di set up from anywhere 140 to 250 new but you can find used ones on here for cheaper sometimes. the thing with tap water especially georgtowns water, i work there and lived in groveland for 20 years, is you don't know whats in it. it can lead to seriouse nitrate problems and algae bloom problems. you can go to many lfs and get ro/di water. i go to jays its a 1 a bucket there. most places its like .50 a gallon. not too bad if you only have to do ten g water changes but best to make your own if you want to go huge like the 100 g plus tanks.
a sump is a tank that goes under your stand usually. if you going to go big you should definitley have one. it is a place you can put equipment you don't want to be seen in the main tank. ie:skimmer, heater and such. it will skim and heat the water for your main tank without that stuff being viible in the main tank. sorry a sump/refugium is plumbed into the main tank. a refugium is a good place to put some types of algea that will take out excess nitrates in your system.its a good place for copepods to reproduce since there usually isnt' any thing in a refugium except for sand rocks and some algae. some people put snails and hermits and fish that are misbehaving in theirs too. if i had a big one i would put a little cuc in there but mine is just a hob one.also since this is all plumbed into your system it gives you more water volume as well. for every lb of rock you put into your main tank you lose water volume. you can also put more live rock in the sump/refugium to help act as a biological filter. you want to have a 1lb to 1.5 lbs per gallon of rock. this will act as your biological filter and you won't even need a hang on the back filter unless you want to run carbon or purigen or somthing along those lines.also like i said keep your eyes open on the for sale forum here and on your local craigslist there are some great deals on big tanks since so many people are getting out due to the economy.hope this helps some if you have any more questions i'd be happy to try and answer them. like i said before their are a lot of people on here that know more than i.

 

[jackthestrat]

I guess I will be the bearer of bad news.

400 bucks isn't going to get you there - not in a satisfactory way, or in a way that will set you up for long term success

Imho the standard 55 gallon is one of the worst choices for a reef - not enough depth or air/water interface. Most people get frustrated quick with the dimensional limitations...

You also sound like you have a LOT of catching up to do, the hobby has changed a lot over the last twenty years. Check out the stickied useful threads, head over to RC (reefcentral) and start reading, and check out wet web media.

 

[afboundguy]

Convert from gravel to sand. Do I go with live or stay no living?

Def go with sand. And it's prob cheaper to get non live sand and seed it with a few cups of sand from an established sand... If I had to do it all over again I'd get this stuff http://www.marcorocks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=44 I got a free sample of it and it is amazing. I even thought of replacing all my current sand with it I liked it so much...

Go with live rock or not. or mix the non living rock with some living rock?
Do I go Fiji or Caribbean?

Again I'd say get some dry rock for $2-$3 a lb from www.marcorocks.com You'll save a ton of money over the $7-$10 live rock at a LFS. Just seed the tank with a few pieces of live rock. Using non live stuff and seeding it should make the cycle longer but IMO it's worth it for the monetary savings...

Do I really need a protein skimmer? Possibly
I'd like to have some soft corals, anemones and some fish.
So the big question is lighting as all we have now is regular florescent.

Yes. You can get a remora or bakpak HOB skimmer. I had a bakpak skimmer on my tank for 4+ years and only got rid of it because I stuffed a sump under the stand and upgraded. You can get a used remora or bakpak for around $50.

I'm being told to go with T5 and it sounds like T5 will provide what I need based upon the forum.
The question is which brand, type etc.?

If you're only looking to stay with the soft corals and anemones you could get away with some of the cheaper parabolic reflector T5's but (and a huge but) you'll prob want more like everybody else so I'd recommend getting a fixture with individual reflectors as the light output is enough to keep SPS and other hi-light demanding corals. I'm a big fan of retro kits if you have a canopy. www.reefgeek.com has some great retro kits and the price includes bulbs. I got my 4 x 54 W kit for $300.

 

[afboundguy]

I guess I will be the bearer of bad news.

400 bucks isn't going to get you there - not in a satisfactory way, or in a way that will set you up for long term success

Unfortunately I'd have to agree here. Although buying non live sand and dry rock and seeding with a very small amount of live sand and rock will help you save a ton of money. If you figure the 1lb per gallon so 55-60 lbs of live rock at a min $7 per lb is $385-$420 and live rock is prob higher than $7 at a LFS. Compare to something like this (40 lbs dry rock and 40 lbs sand) http://www.marcorocks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=46 for $99 or 50 lbs of the rock for $99 you don't have to be a math wizz to figure out what's cheaper I only wish I knew about marco rocks when I started. And FWIW I added about 20 lbs of marco rock to my existing aquarium after I cycled it and can't even tell the difference now...

You could purchase live rock used on the boards but I'd be a little hesitant because you don't know if it'll have pests.

Imho the standard 55 gallon is one of the worst choices for a reef - not enough depth or air/water interface. Most people get frustrated quick with the dimensional limitations...

I can attest to this as I have a 55. If it's a tank you already have sitting around I'd stick with that but if not I'd recommend getting something like a 75. I would love that extra 5-6 inches in the front for aquascaping and room for more acans

 

[ReferReefer]

It hasn't been mentioned here, but it should be.

Ditch the 55g and shoot for a 20 or 29 gallon system at the most. You will need to scale back the number of fish you keep, but by having a smaller system you will do the following:

1) smaller (volume total, not percentage) of water changes, which means less use of reef salt.
2) less sand needed.
3) less rock needed.
4) when you pick up a light, in a smaller tank your wattage requirements will be less, look for a decently cheap 24" T5 system, or you could always pick up a single used MH pendant.
5) smaller frags "look better" which translates into [if you can bear to wait] cheaper coral prices. In a small tank you can buy a frag barely encrusting a plug, and in short order it will have "scaled properly" to the tank. this is just my opinion though

these are all pro's for having a smaller tank, here are the con's [because they're worth counterbalancing]

1) smaller water volume means you need to be willing to check the tank every day, top off water, etc.
2) you will be limited on your fish choices, many reef fish would eventually outgrow a 20-30 gallon system, or wouldn't "thrive" in a limited volume of water. any sponsor LFS would be able to give you good advice on what you could keep for the duration of their lifespan.
3) if [and for most reefers, it is when] you upgrade, you will have to upgrade all of your equipment as none of it would physically fit on a larger tank.. although to be honest, this is generally the case for any upgrade, few people are running strong enough lights/skimmer/pumps in a tank to be able to scale up with a newer tank.

...

Anyway, food for thought. I've seen 20g tanks with stands go for under $50 on these forums, so it wouldn't blow your budget to downsize the tank, but it depends on what you want out of your reef.

Regards,
Lee

 

[jackthestrat]

You know, upon further review of the play...


If you abandon your plan to keep anemones and just keep softies, zoas, shrooms, you could probably set up an array of NO (normal output) flourescents and go without a skimmer (as long as you are willing to add a refugium, you are probably going to need to grow macroalgae to keep the micro in check with a system like this). Not sure how handy you are with DIY but you could probably rig something up for cheep. The problem is that anems will require more light and that will equal much more cost.

So you could set up a softy only tank - 4x or 6x home built NO flourescent fixture, agood amount of live rock , a deep sand bed for denitrification, HOB (hang on back) refugium for chaeto growth and nutrient export, use a flood light for lighting the 'fuge - maybe you could do it for around 400. It could be a pretty cool, simple, low budget system, and softy tanks can look pretty awesome when done right.

 

[Jocko]

Speaking as someone who was also in the "just want to keep some fish and some softies" camp when I started, I can say that that did not last very long. Now all I care about is SPS and other interesting stuff. I wasted money buying lower end lighting and such only to realize within 6 months that I wish I had just gone right for better stuff.

Something to think about. If you've got the patience, you can really take your time and do it piece by piece. Everyone wants to buy everything right away. But then you have to sit and wait for it to cycle for a while and you get all antsy wanting to do something with the tank.

But things like a skimmer or even the lights you don't technically need instantly. Ideally your tank would be running for a while with just some live rock and sand (to seed non-live rock/sand) so it can cycle/stabilize. So maybe just start there?

Step 1, what size tank do I want? Then say ok what are the absolute minimum things I need in order to have some live sand and rock in there happily. Like powerhead, heater, etc. And while you're playing with that stuff, you'll have time to be doing more reading and researching lights, etc. Plus you'll be more hooked at that point so you'll be more willing to spend a few extra bucks on better lighting.

 

[Joel A]

Speaking as someone who was also in the "just want to keep some fish and some softies" camp when I started, I can say that that did not last very long. Now all I care about is SPS and other interesting stuff. I wasted money buying lower end lighting and such only to realize within 6 months that I wish I had just gone right for better stuff.

Boy you started that way too? .

I couldn't agree more... unless you KNOW FOR SURE that you'll never want more than just softies and a few fish, set up your tank the right way the first time and save money in the long run.... it's better to have equipment that can handle whatever you throw at it from the get go then to buy cheap equipment, and replace it later with the proper equipment you should have bought in the first place.

I agree with "jackthestrat" head over to RC and do some reading... =)

 

[MikeG]

I am surprised I see a lot of people saying that live rock is going to cost $7+/lb. Yes it does at quite a few LFS, but there is always live rock coming up on here for $2-3 a lb. These days it isn't much cheaper to go with marco rock, it is more for the density of the rock where you don't need as much to get adequite filtration and the big factor in that you know there are no pests.

As far as sand, I am one to always start with dry sand and think fillinf a tank full of live sand is a waste of money. Yes you will get a good biodiversity, but I would much rather get a cup full of sand form a handful of people that have healthy mature tanks.

For lightling, I would go the T5 route with individual reflectors if you want to keep anenomes. This will not limit you on what you can keep and have thrive with the height of a 55 gallon.

Sumps are useful in hiding equipment if you can set one up. As far as refugiums, I have has several tanks with and without and have never really seen much difference although I always use a huge skimmer. My current tankl is a 140 and has a skimmer that is rated for about 450 gallons. And yse, I do belive a skimmer is necessary unless willing to do frequent large waterchanges.

 

[afboundguy]

I am surprised I see a lot of people saying that live rock is going to cost $7+/lb. Yes it does at quite a few LFS, but there is always live rock coming up on here for $2-3 a lb. These days it isn't much cheaper to go with marco rock, it is more for the density of the rock where you don't need as much to get adequite filtration and the big factor in that you know there are no pests.

I was coming from the standpoint as you might get pests from liverock sold on here where as from marco rocks you won't get pests.