A little Reality check...Being cheap doesn't help anyone

[SaltCreep]

Just a thought on selling setups-

There's always alot of complete tank setups with livestock for sale, here, craigslist, ebay etc etc.

Most of the time they are priced way to high and end up being broken up and parted out.

Why? Because nobody wants to have YOUR tank in their livingroom...they want their OWN tank. To assemble the needed equipment and pick out livestock that they like.

Tanks are kind of a personal preference thing.......so stocked setups are not going to sell for what peoeple tend to charge....



As for coral pricing....ya...haggling is kinda lame, unless it's a discount for multiple items...

 

[randoma]

As apparently, the lone voice of dissension, I gotta say - while I completely agree that if you make a deal and then show up and try to renegotiate (without anything changing - like perhaps the item was not as described) is just ridiculous, I personally would far prefer to get an offer than nothing. I mean, it takes me, what, 30 seconds to hit reply and say, "No."?

My only real problem with selling things (here) is the number of people that don't seem to think it is important to follow through.

And, incidentally, Chew - I'm not in the market for a Mag7 and don't expect to be in the future, but an offer of $40 for something you can buy brand new any day for $55 is not nearly as ridiculous as you make it sound.

 

[Salty Dog]

That's the thing that really burns me - the people that commit to stuff and then disappear. You hear about it all the time from other people in BRS. We had one BRS member that "forgot" to stop by on three different occasions. Fourth time she "remembered."

Amazing how people think they can treat other people.

<rant over>

 

[nitrofish]

I agree with misfit, im glad corals are selling for low money. stop trying to make money and enjoy the hobby.

LOL...That is right up there with when I said I'd rather pee on my live rock and throw it in the back yard than let it go for less than $2 per lb

guess thats where we differ.id rather help fellow reefer out and give it away for free then to let it go to waste. people who know me can vouch for that. the hobby is more then trying to make a quick buck.

 

[NateHanson]

I have trouble seeing the free and low-cost sharing of corals between hobbyists as a bad thing.

I think it says a lot for the growth and success of this hobby that items which were thought to be nearly impossible to keep alive in captivity 15 years ago, are now so easily and routinely cultivated that people give them away to eachother. It does a lot to take pressure off the reefs themselves if all the $100 wild-collected colonies have to compete with free frags and $10 mini-colonies that have already proven themselves in captivity.

Bravo to the reef community for being friendly with eachother, and being so successful at growing corals!

I don't at all see the value in making new reefers pay lots of money for corals so they can better appreciate them. The only thing that does is make them want to sell frags for as much money as possible. I think expensive corals are what make new hobbyists lose appreciation for the beauty and complexity of the hobby. Abundant free and low-cost corals weeds out the people who are drawn to the hobby to have the most expensive collection, and who inevitably are trying to sell frags for top dollar to recoup the costs of their prizes. Sharing corals with newbies and eachother builds the club, builds the hobby, and allows as many people as possible to marvel at these corals, and concentrate on helping them thrive, rather than obsessing about LE status.

 

[nitrofish]

I have trouble seeing the free and low-cost sharing of corals between hobbyists as a bad thing.

I think it says a lot for the growth and success of this hobby that items which were thought to be nearly impossible to keep alive in captivity 15 years ago, are now so easily and routinely cultivated that people give them away to eachother. It does a lot to take pressure off the reefs themselves if all the $100 wild-collected colonies have to compete with free frags and $10 mini-colonies that have already proven themselves in captivity.

Bravo to the reef community for being friendly with eachother, and being so successful at growing corals!

well said.

 

[bbjohngm]

Every fish and just about every coral I have with the exception of my Anchor coral came from Coral Reef Aquariums...(and I will continue to buy from there because Jeremy has been nothing but nice and helpful to me and I would hate to see such a great store go out of business)I never knew this level of swapping and selling of corals even existed! I do feel bad for the original poster though...to have someone commit to buying something and blow you off after going through all the trouble to pack it and practically bring it to them seems totally immature on the part of the buyer.....When Mrs. Delta told me about how people trade, sell and even give corals away I must tell you I was surprised, I couldn't believe that people where actually that nice! lol I'm always willing to pay the price for something I want, that is why I haven't been to CRA to buy something new in almost a year...I even have 2 coral bucks left over from October of 2006 sure hope they don't expire....lol Maybe you should set up a paypal account and have people give you a deposit that way if they blow you off they lose too ? maybe? That is what I did when I sold my BTA (from CRA lol) on Aquabid when the darn thing grew to the size of a dinner plate and I wanted to get more SPS in my tank without worrying about my BTA killing everything lol Could work for you to stop people from blowing you off! I see nothing wrong with trying to make a few dollars on the side especially if it's doing a service and hooking up fellow hobbyists with a good price......I'd give some away or sell some of my own if I ever wanted to...

 

[smcnally]

I agree with misfit, im glad corals are selling for low money. stop trying to make money and enjoy the hobby.

Dude, when have you EVER seen me try to make money selling anything in this club. I rarely sell things, but when I do I try to sell them for a little less than I paid. (I think that's fair, don't you?)

guess thats where we differ.id rather help fellow reefer out and give it away for free then to let it go to waste. people who know me can vouch for that. the hobby is more then trying to make a quick buck.

We don't differ as far as helping fellow reefers is concerned. Ask anybody in this club that has dealt with me and they will tell you that I almost always give free corals and other reef related stuff to them for free when they come to get a coral. The only way I can see we differ in this area is that I will refuse to give something for free to someone that can afford it but expects it for free (or far less than it is worth). But I will give just about anything away for free to anyone that is respectful and doesn't sit there waiting to pounce on hand outs.

 

[Greg Hiller]

I'll just reiterate Nate's message. I think a lot of the reason for the low $ cost for the common stuff is that there are a huge number of people that are VERY successful in this club. I think of course that it's true in the hobby at large, but I think that the knowledge that's been cultivated within this club due to the forum, the speakers/meetings, demos, etc. has made a huge difference. At the last meeting I gave away a melon sized staghorn Acro colony, and that was only half the colony. The 'reef gods' will probably frown on me, but the other half I bleached out for more hold fasts in my seahorse tank. I know people that have asked me (not in this club) if they should use M. digitata for calcium reactor substrate. FWIW, I told them it wouldn't be worth the cost of all the bleach that would be necessary to get all the tissue off.

 

[pillowfish]

Not going to say much other than agree with the frustration of completing transactions with people at times..committing-backing out-re -committing-re-backing-out, etc....and so on and so forth

What I don't really "understand" here(about to make an idiotic statement) is the point in saying it's "bad for buisness" when people sell their corals for so cheap or give things away-it takes away from someone who is trying to sell the same thing but at a higher price, thus newbies never really understand the "value" of the coral???<hope that came out correct

But IMO this is a HOBBY...something you choose to do..I have many hobbies some are relatively cheap and lame while others are extrordinarily expensive. With most hobbies I do I have invested a lot of time and money into them because I enjoy it....Here's the example:

I learned to ski this year for the very first time...bought new skis, bindings, poles, ski boots, thermals, and everything else you can imagine! I did not nor will I ever figure at some point that with this hobby I can make a few dollars to re-coup some of my time, costs and pain........In fact, it is quite opposite, there is a snow gun at Attitash that owes me(ok insurance company) around 14K-just for getting in my way! Did I actually get to keep the snow gun? NO! Was I able to re-coup any damages from the people who work effortlessly to keep the trails less than adequate to ski on? NO! In fact-I'm debating whether I can ski this year just based on the on-going fees associated with all the "accidents" I have.

It's a hobby not a buisness, so to say pricing is unfair between so many different people that you would rather throw it out than sell it for that cheap is just IMO a wee bit of missing the picture. Think of selling frags as a bonus-there is no where here that insists you sell frags...again it's a bonus-take it or leave it.. Anyone who gets in or stays in this hobby does it because they love it(otherwise some of us would not taste the fish gooNOT IT!) so being able to have a community where you share ideas, information/knowledge and yes some corals IMO is a great thing-then everyone could enjoy the beauty of aquacultured corals and hopefully put a serious decliine in wild harvesting. Why can't we all enjoy the benefits? <Some things I do understand about lowballing being unfair..but again you can say no and then goodbye> WHy make it so difficult? I'd be happy as heck if I could figure out how frag my skis and get some $$ to pay the medical bills....

Just my .02

 

[chew*]

And, incidentally, Chew - I'm not in the market for a Mag7 and don't expect to be in the future, but an offer of $40 for something you can buy brand new any day for $55 is not nearly as ridiculous as you make it sound.

When said item is priced more than fairly at almost half the new cost in next to new condition and someone is doing you a favor then yes it is a ridiculous offer.

I would like to see you get one for $55.00 and if its whosale make sure you add the shipping into the cost.........last i checked it sells at petwarehose for 64.99 before shipping and they are about the cheapest around. I purchased mine at a LFS for a tad more (79.99) and got it the same day. Also If I had a problem with it I don't have to pay to ship it back either.

 

[randoma]

When said item is priced more than fairly at almost half the new cost in next to new condition and someone is doing you a favor then yes it is a ridiculous offer.

So, you're saying the new cost is about $100 then?

Petsolutions.com has them for $55, coupon code THKY will get you $5 off, which makes your delivered cost something like $56. And since I would have to go spend the time to get it from you, or have you ship it, I don't think including the shipping cost is particularly relevant - one way or another I am going to have to occupy the same general space as the pump. ("I" being proverbial)

Not to mention, if I buy it from you, *I* can't take it back to the LFS. So, now I have to either deal with the manufacturer or I have to go back to you? In my book, being able to go back to the 'retailer' is worth way more than $5.

If you go out and buy a brand new car (at retail). You drive it off the lot, put say, 2000 miles on it. How much do you think you'll lose if you turn around and sell it?

 

[dz6t]

Coral price is based on supply and demand. There is no blue-book value for any coral.

Everything we can legally keep in our tanks are very common corals, nothing exotic or they will be put under some goverment protection law.

So there is no such thing as "low-ball" on corals. You can always say no to any offer. If you can't sell coral at certain price, it doesn't mean people are cheap, it just means your expectation is two high.

There are not many hobby allow people to recover some cost and be happy if this hobby allows you to do so.

Also, it is proven over and over again that aqua-culture coral is not a viable business in small settings yet. If you don't have several thousand gallons of water and use natural sunlight, you will end up become a coral chop-shop in order to survive.

Just my $0.01

 

[dz6t]

When said item is priced more than fairly at almost half the new cost in next to new condition and someone is doing you a favor then yes it is a ridiculous offer.

I would like to see you get one for $55.00 and if its whosale make sure you add the shipping into the cost.........last i checked it sells at petwarehose for 64.99 before shipping and they are about the cheapest around. I purchased mine at a LFS for a tad more (79.99) and got it the same day. .

It brought up an interesting point:

When a buyer is considering how much to pay for a used item, he/she will compare the asking price with the lowest price he/she can get it for new.

Not how much YOU paid for that items regardless where you buy it from. Generally speaking, shipping cost is not considered as a factor because it will cost the same in gas to drive out somewhere to pickup the item under today's insane gas price.

Also If I had a problem with it I don't have to pay to ship it back either

Also, most reliable online retailers will cover the back shipping cost if an item is defected.

 

[randoma]

Not how much YOU paid for that items regardless where you buy it from. Generally speaking, shipping cost is not considered as a factor because it will cost the same in gas to drive out somewhere to pickup the item under today's insane gas price.

Not just the gas cost. Also the time. Apparently my time isn't worth very much, but let's say I'm worth $10/hour. For me to go visit Dong, who is much closer to me than Chew, it takes a total of about an hour, roundtrip. So, $10 worth of time, plus about $2 in gas. That's almost twice as much as I'd pay for shipping...

 

[chew*]

Hmmm well i didn't know it was that cheap. I used an average with out specials or sales to base my price. Yes used stuff depreciates but if i paid 80k for a car put 2k miles on it it would not be sold for 40k nor would anyone else that had half a brain.........

As far as warranty yes john at sea creature I'm sure would gurantee it under normal use.

You guys don't account for downtime........yes you can ship it but if you need it now and it comes then and its defective and you won't have it till later. Well It's your reeftank. Me personally If i need something I get it today after all how much money is saved if you lose corals in the process of waiting.

 

[dz6t]

That is why you should always have a backup pump in hand.

A used pump has no warrenty comes with it. The value of buying an item from local store is only benefit the original buyer. The value can't be passed to a second user so that it is totally consumed by the original buyer.

 

[richardong]

Surprise this thread has gone that far from what Steve's simple expression. I believe what Steve was trying to say merely from the frustration for not even able to get rid of some corals at reasonable price (again depending of individual of how you see a price is reasonable for certain thing) campared to what he initially paid for a lot higher.

For example, year ago i paid for 1" Idaho Grape for $25 and now i am selling a frag 2-3" for $15. I believe its reasonable price but for some people they might think its expensive if they can find some other reefer to get a frag for free especially when they don't understand what the one have paid for to get a frag to grow out from at first. The same that a year ago you can't even get an 1/2" frag of superman monti for $50, now this coral a lot easier to get among reefers, one can easily get a frag of 1" for less than $50.

I believe the way each individual enjoy the same hobby can be different as well. Some can be very enjoy their tank for having few type of corals but large colony, while others prefer to keep small colony in order to keep variety of corals. In order to continue shopping for new addition, the proceed from trading corals among reefers with a price half of what the person paid for, i don't think anyone should complaint or lowball the person. Remember that every then and now we get to see reefers offer new corals (species and colors) in the club, we should appreciate this happen because we get the chance to own a piece of it with lower price compared to if we have to buy it online. Just look at the price at atlanticaquarium.net and other vendors, before one even think of complaint of what we all have been paying for through local reefers. I have bought a frag of 1 polyp acan lord for a price range $300-$500. No one to blame but myself, i ask for that because i like it and i can't wait. I have to say, yes, its expensive and stupid to even think to get one. Hey, who else in this club never done this crazy move like me?

just my 1/2c

 

[dz6t]

I think a lot of the reason for the low $ cost for the common stuff is that there are a huge number of people that are VERY successful in this club. .

I believe people like Greg yourself contributed to those success a lot. Aqua-Clutured (especially several generations down) corals are very hardy and fast glowing in home enviroment.

The vast amont of knowledge float around the club is another reason. So another thanks to Greg and all the BRS old timers.

Also, inexpensive reef keeping methods such as Randy's two parts lower the cost of growing coral contributed to the constantly lowering cost of corals being traded in the club.

The reason that the people who "low balled" Steve's coral indeed believe that cheaper or no cost source of the same coral indeed available even though sometimes that might not be true.

Just my 1/8 of a cent.

 

[dz6t]

For example, year ago i paid for 1" Idaho Grape for $25 and now i am selling a frag 2-3" for $15.

Same feeling here.

When I bought my original Idaho grape, I was under the impression that it was a slow grower and difficult to keep (hence the high price). Then, I found out that it grows very fast and very hardy.It even ran over some other SPS and soft coral.