Chloramine in Tap Water.

[mgreefer]

Has anyone done any extensive research on this subject who can provide recommendations/methods on how to deal with/eliminate and test?

I am sure a lot of you are aware that more and more towns/cities started to switch and use Chloramine as a way of disinfecting drinking water instead of the traditional Chlorine.

As I understand from reading a bit about it including Randy?s article http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/index.php, and some mention in http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/rhf/index.php, it appears it is a very difficult chemical to deal with and remove specially if it is in the form of monochloramine.

Highlights from my reading:

1-Activated carbon in RO/DI filters (could/maybe/not remove all) monochloramine/chloramines.

2-The result of the above process is Ammonia (BAD).

3-The reverse osmosis/deionizing filter should remove most of Ammonia when PH is 7.5 or lower. Generally and particularly this would not be the case since the first phase by municipal water supplies before adding Chloramine is to raise the PH to 8+.

4-There is a claim that Catalytic Carbon will remove most of the chloramines. It is also marketed for RO/DI filters in the reef hobby. But I cannot find any study regarding this. Assuming that it does, I cannot find anything talking about when to replace, how often, etc.

5-Hash http://www.hach.com makes a test kit for chloramine/monochloramine, it is very expensive $80 for the reagent + $600 to $2100 for a colorimeter or spectrophotometer to measure the results. The test kit Hach CN-70 (part # 1454200) in Randy?s article is not recommended by Hatch to test for chloramines/monchloramine. This is a chlorine test kit and according to their statement

?Hach does not recommend using the difference between a total and free DPD chlorine test for measuring monochloramine. This is because high levels of monochloramine interfere with the free DPD chlorine test, causing the reading to continually increase. Therefore an accurate reading for free chlorine in chloramination systems cannot be measured.?

I don?t know if I am over reacting and if this issue has been nailed down already. My town will be switching this month and use chloramines.

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dave]

I got this recently from Joe at AA:
Hi Addicts, Important news. Lots of towns are now using or going to use a chemical called monochloramine in your water to help clean it up better than chlorine dose. This will affect the fish and coral people. Chlorine is removed with carbon filters and carbon will help some what with monochloramine but chloramine is much harder to remove from your water than chlorine is. The answer is calgon catalytic carbon. This carbon removes the chloramine.So you 4 stage RO people change the sediment filter out with the catalytic carbon and you 5 stage people can replace stage 2 the first carbon filter with the new catalytic carbon. Salem NH will be on line with using the monochloramine in July sometime and concord and Manchester are all ready using it. Call your town to see. Aqua Addicts has the catalytic carbon in stock now. Hope to see you soon thanks Joe.

I called my town (Westford) and they said they do not use and have no plans on using monochlorine or chloramine. If you are on town water I would call and see what your town is using.

 

[Moe_K]

I was one of the folks who performed/witnessed the testing of the hobbyist provided samples for Randy's article. RobboT did most of the testing. He likes that stuff.

From what I recall, RO or RO/DI handled the problems without a hitch. Use RO/DI water and don't worry.

 

[Moe_K]

From Randy's article:

Lessons Learned and Suggestions:

• 1. Most RO/DI systems seem capable of removing chloramine adequately for aquarists.
• 2. The carbon cartridge may become less useful over time, and it is possible that the chloramine removal effectiveness of a system may be lost before the DI appears to need changing.
• 3. Cheap sediment cartridges may expose the carbon cartridge to unnecessary fouling, which may permit chloramine to pass through the system. Cartridges should be replaced as soon as the pressure drops significantly, even if RO/DI water is still being produced at a reasonable rate or purity as measured by total dissolved solids.
• 4. Testing for chlorine and chloramine is easy, so any concern is easily reconciled.
• 5. One Hach kit provides several dozen test results. Our local Boston Club bought some kits and had a "water testing day." The kits can also become part of the "library" of a local club for aquarists to use once in a while to see if their systems are functioning. That way, the cost to each aquarist is minimal.

Conclusions

Chloramine in tap water should be a significant concern to aquarists. Its peculiar properties make it well suited to disinfection of water supplies, but also make it a potential toxin in aquaria. In order to render the water safe for use, aquarists need to use one of two systems for purification: an inorganic reducing agent combined with an additive that binds ammonia (or a single product that does both), or an RO/DI system.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/rhf/feature/index.php

 

[mgreefer]

Moe_k, thanks yes, I do know from Randy’s article about the test kit, but according to Hath this is a chlorine and not a chloramines/monochloramine test kit. Calculating the difference between total & free Chlorine (which this test does and what Randy did) is not going to give you accurate ppm for monochloramine because high levels of monochloramine in the water will interfere with this kit’s ability to report on free chlorine. Please don’t get me wrong, I am not discrediting anything Randy said, I was also reading what the manufacture is saying about their product.

The other point I was trying to make is the RO/DI system with catalytic carbon could (or claim to) remove chloramines/monochloramine but the result of the chemical process is the release of Ammonia. Ammonia can be removed by the RO&DI membranes but only when water PH is 7.5 or below. This is not going to be the case since the town has to raise PH to 8+ in order to add chloramines.

 

[Aquaman_68]

For those of you curious about chloramines.....I have extensive knowledge in this department & for quite sometime as they started chloramiones in my area over 6 years ago. I will offer you a recent explanation rather than a link of old lit. This BTW is my findings from extremely extensive reserch.
Previous tests done at least a couple years ago in the club found that di removed a portion of it. (what they could detect in ppm range that is) But chloramines are 1
1) chlorine
2) free ammonia
Removal in the PPM range isn't enough though.
Chlorine is easily removed. The free ammonia is tenacious to remove completely. (in the PPB range & also hard to test in this range as well) It is also noted that di cart though work...are exausted quite quickly from this & could possibly leach some back once they are full. (but they don't remove into the PPB range) In order to remove to the ppb range you need certain types of di resins in combination to remove the free ammonia in the ppb range. Once again...they will exaust much quicker than they usually rmeoving normal chlorinated water alone. This is where the catalyzed carbon comes in pre di canisters. It removes a higher amount at a higher rate & allows your ro membrane to take less of the brunt prior to di.
If your curious as to why on the resins... There's another whole story to that. I'll try to shorten it to keep from many just ignoring this post due to the size!! Free ammonia can't be fully removed for a very special reason. It is very unstable at a high ph & very difficult to remove in that area. (what ours taps are putting out in the 8's that is) in order to remove most traces into the ppb range you must lower the ph below 7. When you get the ph down in this area you will remove 99.9999 percent which will drop you in the very very low ppb range. So to recap without all the tech stuff. Cat carbon pre membrane & double di cation & anion resin in combination to remove the last lower traces of the free ammonia!!
HTH most & does not confuse too many!!!

 

[mgreefer]

Thanks Aquaman_68 for explanation, so I guess my questions are, since you have been dealing with it for 6 years and I am just about to deal with it, what is your process of:

1-Removal of chloramines/monochloramine (is it just your RO/DI which includes the catalytic carbon? And if you are, how do you test to know that it is about time to change your catalytic carbon) we generally change RO/DI filters when we see our TDS readings, so how about chloramines?
2-Do you deal at all with the ammonia coming out of the RO/DI water since the tap water is high PH and difficult to remove ammonia using RO/DI at this high PH. Do you or can you lower it first to remove all.

I apologize I might be over reacting because I am just about to deal with it in my town, maybe what we have been using between RO/DI and catalytic carbon is enough, I sure would like to test it though.

I have been told maybe I could use Prime by Seachem on my RO/DI made water, it claims that it will remove chloramines/ammonia/nitrites & nitrates. Has anyone used it in a reef, is it reef safe, etc?

 

[Aquaman_68]

2 seperate canisters carbon pre membrane, than two seperate di cart post membrane. (anion & cation in combo)
There was a total/free ammonia kit floating thru the club way back by Hach.....I ended up buying one for myself!