Curing ick, and asking for help.

[B4tney]

So I am pretty sure I just had a fish pass away from ick. Is there any know secret cures. I suck at this hobby just and FYI lol. Does anyone have any books that I should read so I don't completely mess up my 30 gal tank. I started this hobby a lil premature I think. Gave my live rock and sand plenty of time to cure. But I didn't think about a QT though of this more like a freshwater tank. I understand now it's not. Sorry I am venting right now. Just been very stressful on buying a new fish and 5 days after it dies an I dont really know why or how to fix it. Again any sites/ books any info on all I need to know about tanks would be great. I wanna set my 30 up correctly and have everything I need to like the QT for new fish, a sump anything please help. Try to be some what nice lol.

 

[GobyWanKenobie]

Sorry about your fish. Now that ich has entered your tank, you should probably leave it fishless for a couple of months (fallow). Otherwise, any new fish you put in there will probably get ich too. You can still buy all the other fun things like snails, crabs and live coral. They are immune to ich. There are several good articles on this illness. I'm sure someone will post the most popular links for you to study. We all go through this, that's why many of us use a qt tank. Still, the fish can die in there too. There are no easy answers. At least you experienced it early and lost only one fish. Some people lose a whole tank full. It's a very rewarding but frustrating hobby.

 

[reefsane88]

this comes up alot here ,and honestly there are no secrets .u have to get youre water quality to where it needs to be ,and eliminate all stress on the fish. ontop of that u have to make sure u learn as much as u can about that particular fish .last if uve done all the above its time to get a sick tank and pick ur remedy. dont pour chemicals in ur tank people tend to do this in a panic state of mind none of them work ,and the ones that help kill most living things in youre tank. hypo or copper ,choose and execute fully .

 

[stingythingy45]

Here's a link to a very good article on the parasite.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

And one on why to QT.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php

 

[Reef_Wizard]

Another good link - http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

 

[B4tney]

Thanks for the support guys. Yeah that's the first problem. I have two clowns and they are cool as all get out. They eat out my hand and know when I am watching them. I fear I am going to loss them too, which I know is a very good posiblity. Also I have a BTA. So I will probly loss that too. Like you said goby, it is rewarding yet very frustrating. And my water quality was good until this. I had been doing a water changes regularly and the clowns where doing great. I am using RO water.

 

[pallobi]

the solution is very simple... water quality is not the issue, and will not eradicate the parasite, too many people have this misconception... it comes down to the parasite being present and have been introduced on a fish that was not QT'd... get a Qt setup, which is very simple... remove fish, and treat the fish for a minimum of 4 weeks time to break the life cycle of those on the fish currently... your display and system itself, will need to be fallow (empty of fish) for 6 weeks, which means your fish cant go back in for 6 weeks... if you do this, and QT and treat the fish properly, you will in fact no longer have any of the parasite in your system... from that point forward, you will need to QT all new fish for 4 weeks in the same manner...

if you never wana deal with the ich again, this is the ONLY way to ensure that... diet, water quality, "stress" issues, will not help you at all if you want it GONE...

GL

 

[JohnK]

Good info and summary by Neal.

The key to sorting out the relevant info (and the BS info) is understanding that people talk about two different overall approaches to treating ick. "managment" vs "eradication".

Water quality, diet, UV, minimal stress, cleaners, "reef safe" meds - these are ALL managment strategies and will NOT cure ick.

Hyposalinity OR copper treatment, AND keeping the display system 100% fishless for 2 months plus will eradicate ick if done properly.

Don't panic, fish can live with mild infections and often develop the immunity to live with ongoing infection indefinately (managment), so unless they are in dire condition your clowns are likely to survive long enough to figure out how you want to approach this. The BTA will be unaffected by ick, and it will be completely fine without clowns for a couple of months. Also, expect the spots to disappear in a few days, this is normal and not the end of the infection.

 

[tran]

it's very expensive to repair a display tank that is affected with ick. so it's best to quarantine every new fish before you let them go into the display tank.
this way you do not bring the parasites that came with the new fish into your display tank.

 

[pallobi]

not expensive whatsoever... jus a bit time consuming, and requires patience and diligence in husbandry... QT setups and teh basic meds, can be acquired very cheap, if not free from fellow club members...

 

[stingythingy45]

It's not anymore expensive than Qting them.
It's the time wasted catching and qting them that's the real drag.
And having an empty tank isn't really that appealing.

B4tney,
The BTA will be fine,they're not effected by ich.

 

[B4tney]

Thanks for all the info, guys. I am going back to the store that I got it from and see what she has to say. As for a QT tank what should I have in it. Sorry I am so slow with all this.

 

[pallobi]

what are you expecting the LFS to tell you? they dont QT their fish, guaranteed... and their advice, is guaranteed not to be any better than you will find from experienced fellow hobbyists... most LFS' are jus gonna feed you bull and nonsense 90% of the time...

a simple 20 to 30 gallon tank, heater, and hang on filter with sponge for detritus removal, and powerhead.... barebottom with pvc for hiding, will do jus fine... you dont need a light, but it doesnt hurt to have one... as well as the copper based med for ich treatment, and the appropriate test kit for measuring the level of said copper med...

 

[JohnK]

Second all of that. Treating the display is free, it just requires patience and having the QT to keep the fish in.

As for the LFS, they might give you good advice, but nearly every "Help, I got ick" thread we see goes like this one so far, then we get to the chapter called "the LFS has this great product, they sold it to me and said it would work great". The problem is, there is NO reef safe med that actually eradicates ick. There are some that may help to manage ick, but nothing to eradicate (and if there were such a great med available, word would spread very quickly. That has yet to happen). Virtually every fish store has something the shelf that says it treats ick. The only things that actually work to eradicate are copper OR hypo treatment.

Again, it's terribly important to be clear about weather your are going for managment or eradication.

 

[tran]

it's best to take our hobbyst's advices. They have been there and done that.
The people at the LFS will suggest you to try this product out or that product.
Most people at the LFS do not have a tank in their own.

 

[B4tney]

Yeah, I am just going to see if she will give me my money back or store credit. I am going to setup a QT tomorrow. What type of meds am I looking for to give to the fish (brand name). Also what type of sponge will work? Like one you get to a store or like one you see for coffee pot things. I really do appreciate all this help guys. I wouldn't know what to do and would have listen to the girl. I plan on getting fish out of the tank do a full water change on the display tank and leave the BTA in there with the sand and rock.

 

[stingythingy45]

All you really need is like a
10 gallon tank
Hang on the back filter.(Aquaclear 30)has a filter sponge in it
50 or 100 watt heater
And various large PVC fitting for the fish to hide behind.Ts,elbows...ect(about 3-4)

If using copper,a copper test kit

I never used copper,did hypo instead.
But I would suggest you go with copper if you don't have a refractor or don't feel comfortable dropping salinity extremely low.

 

[pallobi]

the brand name of the treatment isnt as important as the type of med... in this case for ich... copper, or "chelated" copper will do the trick jus fine... the key is the proper dosage, and proper exposure to the med that will help you... myself, i use Seachem chelated copper... said to be safer to the fishes health, than jus straight copper... personally, however, i dont care about all that, as they are both toxic imo... but its the toxicity of it, that kills the parasite... i jus want what works best, and will get the job done... many will say that copper is harmful to fish, and it can be, if not done right, but then again, so cant lowering your salinity to 1.008 or 1.009, which can also be very harmful...

 

[JohnK]

As for meds, I prefer to do hyposalinity treatment over copper. To do hypo you NEED a good refractometer (swing arm hydrometers are not accurate enough).

If you opt to do a copper treatment, you need a copper med AND a test kit that is compatible with it. Some copper is "chelated" and some is not. The test kit needs to match the type of copper. There are copper meds that tell you to add whatever amound every so and so days - that is BS, the copper needs to be added to reach a theraputic level, and then tested daily to keep it there. Avoid any copper med that tells you to does with out testing.

DO NOT TREAT WITH COPPER AND HYPO AT THE SAME TIME. Both together will kill the fish.


FWIW, IMO don't bother asking for money back on the fish. (maybe bring it back in and ask for store credit). In all fairness to all the LFS's out there, good and bad, there is no way any LFS can really QT and treat all their fish. When buying saltwater fish, the best we can expect is fish that APPEAR healthy when we buy them. LFS's have fish coming and going constantly, and it simply isn't possible for them to effectively treat all the fish. Some really good stores will hold onto fish for a week or two before selling to make sure the fish aren't obviously sick, but this is still no assurance. Ick starts in the gills where it can't be seen. Fish that are showing spots are fairly heavily infected. This is way it's soooo easy to bring ick home, it's those few spots hiding in the gills that keep low level infections going. In this hobby, we really need to assume all new fish are carrying parisites. That adivce is out there in plenty of places, but it's very rare that people pick up on said advice until they are having a problem. It's not you, it's just the way people work. Pretty much all of us learned the hard way as you are now

 

[JohnK]

I'd agree, both treatments are risky, but Copper is probably easier to use and the treatment is much quicker. (2 weeks vs 12 weeks).

Either way, the fish have to stay out of the display for at least 8 weeks or they will just get sick again.