Help! Newbie keeps losing fish

[reiserrob2003]

I've had a thirty gal reef tank going since february, five different corals growing and flourishing, I have a green chromis and a clown that seem to be very happy and healthy, I had the green chromis since the beginning and the clown i bought about three months ago. Over the past month and a half I introduced in this order, a royal gamma, a mandarin and a hippo tang, I bought the hippo tang from a fish store in RI that i considered reputable, I bought the other two from a fish store in Boston. When I bought the tang the girl told me they had just come in, but being the rookie aquarist I am I bought him anyway, He developed little white lumps which later I discovered was ich, I started kick ich but he got progressively worse, I noticed a decline in health of my gamma and mandarin also and they all died within a week of eachother, Thinking there may a bacterial infection I started the tank on Melafix, during this time I introduced a anthias from another shop in taunton who seemed perfectly fine when I brought him home, he lasted three days, i never noticed any symptoms, i found my cleaner shriimp knawing on him when i got home tonight from work. I've had my water tested twice by two different shops and they both said it was perfect except my alk. was a tiny bit low. I have two healthy fish and many happy corals, i see plenty of night life in there and healthy coralline algae growth in there but I've lost four fish in the last month. Any input would be appreciated on what I'm doing wrong. I try to keep the chemistry perfect in my tank so I don't understand why two fish are living so well and all others seem to perish so quickly, please excuse my poor spelling

 

[fanaglethebagle]

Ok, 30 gallons is far too small for a hippo tang and unless it was eating frozen, too small for a mandarin without a refugium. The small tank stressed the hippo which developed ich or other infections which then could be spread to the other fish. The Chromis and clown are both much hardier fish so they could probably deal with the infection better. When you buy fish you should really research what size tank they need to be in other than the vendor. Sorry if I sound like a jerk, I'm just trying to be straightforward.

 

[reiserrob2003]

i did research each fish I bought, I introduced a bottle of like two thousand pods into the tank shortly after i bought him. I am running a small fuge. I knew the tang would grow and i knew that someday I'd have to give him away, I fed him greens and mysis and he was a very healthy eater, what i did notice was he was constantly brushing against the rocks almost like he was itching himself right from the first day i bought him home. also some of the other tangs at the shop seemed very stressed to the point they were laying at the bottom of the tank and the girl assured me they were just stressed cause they had just gotten them in, by the way, I'm talking about a very small tang. within a week of having him i noticed the little granules on his skin but i had never heard of ich. I never would buy a fish or coral i didn't first research and understand the exact needs of the species.

 

[reiserrob2003]

the pods were for the mandarin, i forgot to mention

 

[pillowfish]

I am by far no expert, but here's my questions/concerns. First, I would not add anymore fish to the tank until you figure out why the fish are dying. I agree with Andrew(fanagle) on the tank size for the hippo. Also, it has been my experience that hippos are quite sensitive(IMO/IME one of the most easily stressed and least hardy when they are "small" <2.5" or so). Personally I would not buy a hippo(or most any other fish) that has just been "'received" and "acclimated" to a LFS system that day. But again JMO..my choice.

You state your water chemistry is perfect, each reefer has their own "magic" numbers for their water parameters-so posting what your alk, ph, sg, temp, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites would help out quite a bit for other folks to chime in and give more accurate advice. Also system set-up is important as well-such as lights, refugium(especially if you are trying to keep a mandarin), running carbon?, skimmer, etc,..the more info given the better your chances are of solving your issues.

I'll let more expereinced/better at explanations/etc.. folks give their opinions and take on things, just trying to help you out by asking some basic water chemistry questions and tank set-up specs. Good luck and keep asking!

tabby

 

[reiserrob2003]

29 gal tank, well i run a dsb, about 25-30 lbs of live rock, three power heads moving the water in a circular current through and around the rock i have a large skilter filter with dual cartridge, a very productive protein skimmer built in, i added an aquaclear filter a few weeks ago converted to a low flow refugium complete with compact flourescent light, I run a current sunpod 150w hqi. now for my parameters, 1.0235 sg, alk 10, ph 8.3, no2 and no3 untraceable, and no ammonia, my calcium was low but I've been working on it, I top off with RO once a day, i change roughly 10% of the water with a RO and tropic marin salt once a week. i run the light 8 hrs a day, temp fluctuates from about 76-80degrees f, due to light and ambient air temp and as i mentioned above numerous corals flourishing, 2 cleaner shrimp, 2 pep shrimp, 2 turbo snails, 4 hermits, one large snail and a thousand little babies all still alive. creatures all over the tank at night. two very happy and healthy fish. i don't get this fish die off. as for the tng, he will be the last until i get a larger tank, its just they're so cool looking and very interesting to watch and my son wanted a Dory.

 

[fanaglethebagle]

I'm sure your tank is healthy and fine, the simple fact is that hippos love their swimming room and the 2 feet provided is just not enough even if the tang is still small. They like to pick up speed and drift a distance and if they can't get that natural feeling they become stressed. One stressed fish can cause other fish to stress and chain react. There is probably nothing wrong with your tank, maybe just a poor selection of livestock.

 

[SharkLover]

I have a 58 gallon and even my tank is too small for a hippo tang.
Chevrons dont grow too big if you ever decide to upgrade tank size to a 58 but 30 gallon is a bit too small.

 

[LosingSleep]

...Over the past month and a half I introduced in this order, a royal gamma, a mandarin and a hippo tang, I bought the hippo tang from a fish store in RI that i considered reputable, I bought the other two from a fish store in Boston. When I bought the tang the girl told me they had just come in, but being the rookie aquarist I am I bought him anyway, He developed little white lumps which later I discovered was ich.....

Research would have told you that mandarin need a mature system with a healthy pod population, your tank was WAY too small for a tangs, tangs are extremely susceptible to ich and all fish should be quarantined.

...Thinking there may a bacterial infection I started the tank on Melafix, during this time I introduced a anthias from another shop in taunton who seemed perfectly fine when I brought him home, he lasted three days, ...

While treating a tank for ich and dumping other chemicals in to treat for a bacterial infection that may or may not exist, why introduce another fish? Also, most anthias need a minimum of 55 gallons and some 100+. What kind of anthias was it?

...i did research each fish I bought

I introduced a bottle of like two thousand pods into the tank shortly after i bought him.

There should have been a thriving and sustainable pod population before the mandarin.

...I am running a small fuge...

How much sand, LR and cheato is in the refugium?

...I knew the tang would grow and i knew that someday I'd have to give him away, I fed him greens and mysis and he was a very healthy eater, what i did notice was he was constantly brushing against the rocks almost like he was itching himself right from the first day i bought him home....
...within a week of having him i noticed the little granules on his skin but i had never heard of ich. I never would buy a fish or coral i didn't first research and understand the exact needs of the species.

 

[LosingSleep]

Chevrons dont grow too big if you ever decide to upgrade tank size to a 58 but 30 gallon is a bit too small.

This is terrible advise.

They need much more room to swim and not stress (100g+), and the Live Rock that goes with a tank of that volume for grazing.

 

[SharkLover]

This is terrible advise.

They need much more room to swim and not stress (100g+), and the Live Rock that goes with a tank of that volume for grazing.

I agree its not the best idea. And not something I would do, but people have done it and successfully. I would re-itterate to say this is not a good idea but shows an example of the limitations when picking your tank inhabitants.

 

[afboundguy]

I agree with everybody that a tang is way to small for your tank. And buying a fish with the intentions of giving it away IMO makes no sense. Why not purchase a fish that will thrive in your tank instead of something that won't?

Mandarins are one of the harder fish to keep in a reef tank. IMO/IME they need about 75 lbs of live rock and a tank that is really mature. The mandarin also prob ate that whole bottle of pods in less than a day.

My advice would be to research fish very carfully, don't purchase anything that arrived in the store that day, (a few of my LFS's won't even sell me anything the first day they get it in unless it's in awesome shape and a hardy species) and take it slow. If you are treating the tank with medications you shouldn't add anything while your doing it.

Also you might want to invest in a small 10 gal QT setup with a HOB power filter some pvc and a heater. It's much better to treat outbreaks of disease in a separate tank. Also you should QT new fish for at least 2 weeks to make sure they're healthy before introducing them into your tank.

 

[stingythingy45]

Agree with all info here except maybe the Chevron,but that's clarified.
Your tank is most likely infected with Ich now as you didn't QT incoming fish.
BTW,this is not by any means looking down my nose at you.I made the same mistake when I first got started.But,there's a good chance that any fish you introduce to the system will get Ich.
I know you're probably saying,"but I have 2 healthy fish in there now".Well fish can develope a resistence to Ich over time.And if you water parameters are good they can fight it off and appear healthy.
If you introduce a new fish and it gets Ich then all fish will need to be removed from the system for 6-8 weeks.This is called running the tank"fallow" and will remove host for the parasite and in turn will eliminate the pest from the tank.
During this time the fish would need to be treated in a seperate tank(as invert will die) with either copper or hyposalinity.I'm a fan of hypo and have had good luck with this process.You see,in order to be successful in this hobby you really need at least 2 tanks.I wish you luck......

 

[jbishop]

As Bob stated there are to things you can do with Ich. eliminate it (QT and running fallow) or manage it. Managing ich involves keeping the tank parameters in check and feed your fish a healthy diet. The tank was probably too small for the fish introduced (short of the royal). Take your time don't add too much to fast.