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Is my tank too low on nutrients? Too high?
- Thread starter jdeb101
- Start date
mbian112283
Non-member
I just recently started daily dosing. I didn't test everyday just once a week. Then slowly raised my daily dose till it was stable. Took 8 weeks and I am real close to the number and once I can keep it stable for another 8 weeks I will test bi weekly or monthly
Trying to track it daily would have drove me nutz.
Trying to track it daily would have drove me nutz.
testing weekly is good but for the first couple of days of dosing you will have to test daily if you're consumption is significant. My 75G used to drop 2-4 dKh when the rock was growing coraline, that can kill most of your corals in a couple of days if you don't keep up with it.
OP
OP
jdeb101
Non-member
Thanks for the good tips. I have been testing roughly same times every evening, maybe one or two hours difference. Unfortunately no coraline growth and I'm not sure how to tell if I have bacterial growths. I have had Lyngbya algae I've been battling for at leads ya month now which I try keeping in control with manual removal and wc's.
delta
Impatient Reefer
No that is not your problem daily consumption is what daily consumption is. But 4meg/l is a little over 11DKh and that is the high side 3.5meg/l is about 10DKH I would lean towards 3.5m/l 10Dkh & Ca 440-450
But from you test results it appears you haven't figure out your daily usage. I believe this is your problem. So you need to continue to nail that down or you will continue to bounce around. The 2 part should be in equal doses of part one and two. You should be able to dial in the dosing so everyday is the exact same dose and your test result are the same to back that up.
But remember to separate the two daily usage and the parameters(adjusting to) you want to run your tank at. You should be able from testing regardless of where you want to be know how much the dosing is buffering your tank and what the daily usage is even if it is not where you want to be at parameter wise. So write down the Dosage and your test result each day. Note the drop vs the amount you dosed until the dosing matches the daily usage. if you do it at the same time each day and your tank drops 1dkh/day you need to buffer it 1dkh. the problem I think you are having is it drop one DKH(just throwing out a number for reference) and you are not where you want to be so you are buffering and adjusting then factoring in the adjustments as daily usage. or in other words you need to know how many Ml's of two part does it take to buffer your tank 1dkh
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mbian112283
Non-member
I figoured anything I started dosing would soften my downward trend when I realized water changes didn't cut it. I just figoured it is easier to see the trend over a larger amount of time and not over focus and chase numbers. Sometime you can get analysis paralysis.
delta
Impatient Reefer
I think the point of his post was so people take the advice to test frequently and not weekly as a tank with a large daily demand could go up in smoke before the week was up.
OP
OP
jdeb101
Non-member
I may have to reread this a few times, but think I understand.
The strange thing is Alk consumption is obvious but Calc doesn't change much at all. What does my more frequent dosing of Alk indicate?
freakit
Non-member
Dosing 2 part equally is not the case with my tank. To keep ALK 7 CA 410 and MAG 1360. I need to dose 14ml,11ml and 14 ml respectively. I once tried to dose evenly and had an ALK spike. So I just don't believe it needs to be dosed in equal parts.
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It is fairly simple:
(I will use numbers for the example only)
1. Measure your Alk tonight - it measures 9 (example only)
2. At the same time tomorrow night, measure your alk again. It measures 8. Now you know your tank drops 1dkh every 24 hours.
3. Slowly add a few drops, and measure 10-15min later. Add a few more drops and so on until it is back to 9. Now you know it takes XXX drops to bring your tank up 1dkh.
4. The following night, measure again. It should be back down to 8. Add XXX drops and measure again. It should be up to 9.
Now all you have to do is keep the drops stable and measure every day for a couple of weeks. Measure at the same time and the Alk should always be the same.
Repeat for Calcium.
Once you figure out how many drops you need for 1dkh and to bring calcium up, then it is a matter of adjusting slowly over time. For example, if you buy a 5" clam, add an extra drop of Cal and ALK because you know the clam will consume a lot. Then measure the following 2-3 days.
I only measure once every month or two, and my numbers are always the same. I add 100 ml of baking soda and around 20 mil of calcium carbonate from BRS every night.
The baking soda is mixed: 2 table spoons per cup. (32 table spoons per gallon jug).
The calcium carbonate is mixed per the BRS instructions.
(I will use numbers for the example only)
1. Measure your Alk tonight - it measures 9 (example only)
2. At the same time tomorrow night, measure your alk again. It measures 8. Now you know your tank drops 1dkh every 24 hours.
3. Slowly add a few drops, and measure 10-15min later. Add a few more drops and so on until it is back to 9. Now you know it takes XXX drops to bring your tank up 1dkh.
4. The following night, measure again. It should be back down to 8. Add XXX drops and measure again. It should be up to 9.
Now all you have to do is keep the drops stable and measure every day for a couple of weeks. Measure at the same time and the Alk should always be the same.
Repeat for Calcium.
Once you figure out how many drops you need for 1dkh and to bring calcium up, then it is a matter of adjusting slowly over time. For example, if you buy a 5" clam, add an extra drop of Cal and ALK because you know the clam will consume a lot. Then measure the following 2-3 days.
I only measure once every month or two, and my numbers are always the same. I add 100 ml of baking soda and around 20 mil of calcium carbonate from BRS every night.
The baking soda is mixed: 2 table spoons per cup. (32 table spoons per gallon jug).
The calcium carbonate is mixed per the BRS instructions.
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OP
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jdeb101
Non-member
Thanks P-Nut. My concern with your method is my tanks consumption has been all over the place according to my test results. If I can figure that out and get a grasp on it I think I'll be in a much better place. I do not have a doser unfortunately so the way I do it is I will mix my additive (Seachem dry stuff) in RO until dissolved and then slowly poor it into a powerhead.
OP
OP
jdeb101
Non-member
It's the Seachem Reef Builder (Alk) and Reef Advantage (Calc) dry stuff.
delta
Impatient Reefer
Well it disregard the two part dosing advice. Those are not meant to be dosed equally and might not get you the balance the two part will
Just so you know for a $1.29 2lbs of baking soda and a gallon of RO you can make the Alk part of two part. A bag of dowflakes is like $15 buck and can make 20-30 gallons of the Ca part of two part.
if you are interested in the 2part solution take a look at Randy's article http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/
Just so you know for a $1.29 2lbs of baking soda and a gallon of RO you can make the Alk part of two part. A bag of dowflakes is like $15 buck and can make 20-30 gallons of the Ca part of two part.
if you are interested in the 2part solution take a look at Randy's article http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/
OP
OP
jdeb101
Non-member
Thanks Delta. I'm aware a lot of reefers use the Randy's two part and I may switch to that once my seachems are all used up. I purchased these a while back before I was aware.
OP
OP
jdeb101
Non-member
UGHH! WTH.... Just did another round of tests and again it makes no sense!
Alk: 3.30
Cal:400
How on earth could my Alk have jumped up if I haven't added anything since yesterday! To be honest, I'm getting pretty exhausted with trying to figure this all out and ready to just give up.
Alk: 3.30
Cal:400
How on earth could my Alk have jumped up if I haven't added anything since yesterday! To be honest, I'm getting pretty exhausted with trying to figure this all out and ready to just give up.
I have an idea in regards to you bouncing Alk, it's a shot in the dark but it's worth considering. Might not be the case depending on the composition of those additives.
As you add something highly caustic, like Kalkwasser you are not adding any Alk technically, but, in practice you do; because all the CO2 the makes its way in the tank, from fish or air, gets converted to Alk due to the excess OH groups. This might be the case with your additive as well.
To test for this check you Ph as well. assuming the "kalkwasser effect" takes place in your tank you will see a higher Ph when you Alk is lower and vice versa.
If you're in the worcester area and want to drop by I have some dry stuff for the calcium part, the Alk is basically baking soda or BAKED baking soda depending on the recipe you use. or you can go get some pickling lie fro walmart and switch to Kalkwasser dosing, preferably via autotopoff.
As you add something highly caustic, like Kalkwasser you are not adding any Alk technically, but, in practice you do; because all the CO2 the makes its way in the tank, from fish or air, gets converted to Alk due to the excess OH groups. This might be the case with your additive as well.
To test for this check you Ph as well. assuming the "kalkwasser effect" takes place in your tank you will see a higher Ph when you Alk is lower and vice versa.
If you're in the worcester area and want to drop by I have some dry stuff for the calcium part, the Alk is basically baking soda or BAKED baking soda depending on the recipe you use. or you can go get some pickling lie fro walmart and switch to Kalkwasser dosing, preferably via autotopoff.
delta
Impatient Reefer
It explains a lot of your problems that were not clear before.
If it were me I would switch to the two part and use the Seachem for adjustments. You will continue to chase your tails there is a reason the two part is so popular it works and it is simple. I guarantee you would have already been on your regular dosing regiment and not chasing your tail. And I would be happy to donate some Ca if need be to get you started. Might even slide you some of the chemical grade Mg to give you a nudge actually from the bag pictured in randy's article. You'd have to kick in the 3 cups of epsom salt and 2 lbs baking soda but hey it is a start. that might cost you $5-8
And would be happy to walk you through the first mix
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