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Limited Edition, I don't Get it!
- Thread starter smpross
- Start date
MFreef
Non-member
names mean nothing to me! If I like the coral I buy it..If the zoas are cool looking I buy them..red orange green blue brown yellow..those are the names of my zoas! its that simple! and if these corals are so limited edition why is there a 3 year waiting list! its obvious he not gonna run out!he just made 3 years worth of sales. nice job security! just my 2 cents
OP
OP
smpross
Non-member
fanaglethebagle
Not-so-old Sea Dog
Yes.
That is exactly what I mean!
Most of my best corals have come from BRS members!
Scott
I am totally with you on this one.
In fact, I still have sevral frags of $5 Idaho grape left.
It grow so fast that it gets in the way of other nice corals I have.
Most of my reef are form BRS members.
I have to agree with the overall flow of this thread. Mostly I don't think that anything that's being constantly propagated can be called LE. I do however enjoy different zoas having names though I don't think that means they should be $50-100 per polyp. I know that they might look different in different tanks or under different lighting but I think the names just make them recognizable. I also don't understand people selling frags for a ridiculous ammount of money after they've made their investment back. For example if I buy 2 polyps of purple people eaters for $100 and sell a 2 polyp frag later for $100 I don't think that's so wrong (though $50 would be better). Later after I've made my money back I just couldn't justify charging that much per polyp. On that note anyone got any PPE's for sale. 
sbertomen
Member
I have to agree that all of my favorite corals come from other BRS tanks, and it is funny that I pick one out to buy and they pick one out for me, and it is always the one they pick out that I treasure the most. BUT, I have been looking around at other sources just because I know that many of the more experienced reefers stepped up and purchased very expensive, beautiful corals - spent alot of time and care raising them to a fragable size, then shared them with the rest of us. I don't mean I just want to buy for the name or anything, just maybe get something more unusual to be able to propagate so everyone has a chance to get something different.
johnchapple714
Non-member
I agree as well. If I like something I get it. If it seems to expensive then I pass, the same frag will usually come along again at some point. I agree with Spooky that zoos having names is good and makes them more recognizable, however a name doesnt make it right to charge an arm and a leg for something even if it is rare.
The thing about corals having names or falling under the "LE" category is that it is so hard to actually tell if it really is in fact that special type that you are led to believe it is. There is so much experience and expertise needed to identify some corals with absolute certainty. There are so many different color morphs as far as zoos go and I know that SPS will look different under different lighting so who knows what is what for sure. I have seen at least 5 different types of green slimer in the past year or so. (I know this is similar to what has been said I just felt I should reiterate it to make my opinion known)
However all things about overpaying put aside I do have to say I am guilty of paying $60+ per polyp for a fire engine red dendro in the last week. Honestly I have never seen anything like this before so for me it was worth it. (Also I dont think anyone in the club will have a problem when I can frag it and sell it for the half the price. (even if I sell for less than I paid I know I would be able to recoup the cost because it would sell like hot cakes.))
I know I am a hypocrite.
The thing about corals having names or falling under the "LE" category is that it is so hard to actually tell if it really is in fact that special type that you are led to believe it is. There is so much experience and expertise needed to identify some corals with absolute certainty. There are so many different color morphs as far as zoos go and I know that SPS will look different under different lighting so who knows what is what for sure. I have seen at least 5 different types of green slimer in the past year or so. (I know this is similar to what has been said I just felt I should reiterate it to make my opinion known)
However all things about overpaying put aside I do have to say I am guilty of paying $60+ per polyp for a fire engine red dendro in the last week. Honestly I have never seen anything like this before so for me it was worth it. (Also I dont think anyone in the club will have a problem when I can frag it and sell it for the half the price. (even if I sell for less than I paid I know I would be able to recoup the cost because it would sell like hot cakes.))
I know I am a hypocrite.
chew*
Murphy's Law
What some of you don't realize is some "coral farmers" only give a name to picks of the littler. For instance the "original Tyree Purple monster". Tyree cultured many corals under the same genus but only the most colorful under the exact same conditions wore the name.
Lets compare this to another type of animal.
Dogs.
For every litter there are "picks" of the litter and runts. Obviously the "picks" will fetch more money the runts will not. Is this marketing? No it's a fact of life and nature.
I have to laugh because From post's I've read 50% of you use tunze products. Aren't they a little pricey? Aren't you paying for the "name"
I have to agree with greg as far as the tyree toadstool. I saw the atlantis version, not as impressive in the same exact tank and conditions.
As far as the purple rim cap (leng sy) well, I don't think its extinct
I'll leave it at that.
In my own personal experience I have seen the Tyree pink lemonade and also seen the regular version, No comparison.
Lets compare this to another type of animal.
Dogs.
For every litter there are "picks" of the litter and runts. Obviously the "picks" will fetch more money the runts will not. Is this marketing? No it's a fact of life and nature.
I have to laugh because From post's I've read 50% of you use tunze products. Aren't they a little pricey? Aren't you paying for the "name"
I have to agree with greg as far as the tyree toadstool. I saw the atlantis version, not as impressive in the same exact tank and conditions.
As far as the purple rim cap (leng sy) well, I don't think its extinct
I'll leave it at that.In my own personal experience I have seen the Tyree pink lemonade and also seen the regular version, No comparison.
OP
OP
smpross
Non-member
What some of you don't realize is some "coral farmers" only give a name to picks of the littler. For instance the "original Tyree Purple monster". Tyree cultured many corals under the same genus but only the most colorful under the exact same conditions wore the name.
Lets compare this to another type of animal.
Dogs.
For every litter there are "picks" of the litter and runts. Obviously the "picks" will fetch more money the runts will not. Is this marketing? No it's a fact of life and nature.
I have to laugh because From post's I've read 50% of you use tunze products. Aren't they a little pricey? Aren't you paying for the "name"
I have to agree with greg as far as the tyree toadstool. I saw the atlantis version, not as impressive in the same exact tank and conditions.
As far as the purple rim cap (leng sy) well, I don't think its extinct
In my own personal experience I have seen the Tyree pink lemonade and also seen the regular version, No comparison.
Chew,
I respectfully disagree with your analogy with dogs... Here is why.
Studies have shown that the runt of a litter has more health issues. In the world of corals, you do not get a "healthier" coral from "Designer Coral" Farmers I know when I buy a dog, I want a dog that will grow to breed standard (AKC) and does not have health issues. This is why people would buy the "Pick of the Litter". In other words, there is a real reason why someone would want a "Pick of the litter" instead of a runt.
However, the same is not to be true for corals. There is no evidence that Corals from Steve's tank (While I am sure they are healthy) are healthier than average corals for a BRS Members tank. Furthermore, there is no evidence that they grow faster.
As for your Tunze example, the difference is that Tunze has direct control over the quality of their product. If they perform action "A" (use a thicker plastic hood for example) it will increase B (The stability of the device). Does Steve actually do things that other people don't do to increase longevity, health or beauty in his customer's tank? I believe the answer is "No".
I have never owned a Tunze product, but it seems to be that they have proven in the past to have superior products... How can Steve's coral's be superior? If I have a red truck and a Bright red truck, is the bright red truck worth more? Is it a better truck? Perhaps it is a prettier truck. Perhaps you could even sell the brighter truck as a limited edition. But it will not propogate other Brighter red trucks.
Respectfully,
Scott
Maybe one of the fundamental questions here is what does the name really mean?
It seems that a lot of people are assuming it assures something special - color, hardiness, fast growth, all of the above. OK, what gaurentee is there of this? What garuentee is there that there isn't just a chop shop out there somewhere slapping names on fresh imports?
Oh yea, the purple rimmed caps. Yes, there are plenty of purple rimmed cap mrophs out there. Can anyone trace theirs back to the one in the widely published tyree pic? IIRC I saw leng sy posting about it one RC yrs ago, he had stated that no one could actually trace theirs back, then numerous (mostly newer reefers) explained that they did in fact have it and had paid premium prices for it. If it looks something like a duck and quacks like a duck, is it Donald duck?
It seems that a lot of people are assuming it assures something special - color, hardiness, fast growth, all of the above. OK, what gaurentee is there of this? What garuentee is there that there isn't just a chop shop out there somewhere slapping names on fresh imports?
Oh yea, the purple rimmed caps. Yes, there are plenty of purple rimmed cap mrophs out there. Can anyone trace theirs back to the one in the widely published tyree pic? IIRC I saw leng sy posting about it one RC yrs ago, he had stated that no one could actually trace theirs back, then numerous (mostly newer reefers) explained that they did in fact have it and had paid premium prices for it. If it looks something like a duck and quacks like a duck, is it Donald duck?
joefitz
Non-member
I don't know if I'd go that far. I mean, when I started in the club I don't think I saw a frag go for more than $20-25 -- no matter what it was. Now we have members selling frags for $$.
I'm not saying it is "wrong", there are perfectly legit reasons for people to do that including defraying costs of the hobby and hey, just wanting to make a buck, but the whole process seems to have taken a bit of a turn even within the BRS. I miss the old days in that regard although I realize we live in a capitalist society and there really is no way it was going to stay the way it was. Or more likely, my memory is completely and utterly wrong and it really isn't any different today than it was way back then.
There are plenty of arguments as to how capitalism helps the hobby too.
OP
OP
smpross
Non-member
Joe,
I understand your thinnking. However, I must say that the generosity of many people in the clubs has been incredible! I can think of two people off hand that in the last couple of weeks have given me several corals FANTASTIC Corals and have not asked for anything in return. It is still out there... But you may need to look a little harder. Of course, I have recipricated the generosity as well.
Scott
I understand your thinnking. However, I must say that the generosity of many people in the clubs has been incredible! I can think of two people off hand that in the last couple of weeks have given me several corals FANTASTIC Corals and have not asked for anything in return. It is still out there... But you may need to look a little harder. Of course, I have recipricated the generosity as well.
Scott
I may have the minority opinion but I have to disagree on a lot of fronts.
Although I do agree that there is a lot of marketing involved with these designer corals I also feel that there are some pretty significant benefits. Whether a person is willing to pay for these benefits is up to them. For me the benefits are
1) COLOR
I know that these corals have been kept colorful in a number of tanks not just mine. With wild caught corals it can be completely hit or miss as far as corals retaining their colors. Although a coral maybe beautiful in one reefers tank it may not keep its color in other peoples tank. This is much less of a risk with well known corals because they have proven that they can hold their colors under a wide range of parameters. Tyree goes so far as to "delist" corals if they don't continue to hold thier colors. I've never seen a coral with the blue color of an Oregon Tort and I don't think I ever will and you know what it's not hard to get it that color. For that I am willing to pay a premium.
2) HARDINESS
Again these corals are usually at least 2 3 generations from being wild caught. They have proven that they will survive in captivity. Much like tank raised fish have a higher survival rate in our tanks corals that have been in captivity for multiple generations also have a higher survivability rate.
3) FOR TRADING
For trading purposes it can be a lot easier to trade one well known coral for another well known coral when the two parties don't know each other or live down the street. Am I going to drive 3 hours when some one I don't know says I have a sweet purple coral? Probably not but if they have some Garf Purple Bonsai I probably would because of the reasons listed above.
It's up to you. Some people would rather save money and buy a KIA I would probably prefer a Honda or a Toyota. You know why because they have a proven track record that people are willing to pay for. These corals are usually initially expensive but drop in price significantly if you are willing to wait. I think the Idaho Grape and the Tubs Blue Zoos are two examples of this. What is an expensive LE one day can turn into a cheaper coral once it's more readily available. I believe Greg could attest to the fact that at one point Green Slimers and Orange Caps were rare sought after corals. People are going to pay for what they want. If they do then that is their choice and you certainly can't blame the person who is selling it to them. We live in a free market economy and I'm glad that we do.
As far as the purple rimmed cap aka the "Leng Sy Cap" I got mine from the guys over at Exotic Reefs. I was told by Alex AKA ROAB on Reef Central that Mike Palleta had initially though he lost this coral but realized that he had a small surviving piece that he grew out and fragged. Maybe we can ask him when he comes to speak to the club. I have absolutely tortured mine since I've owned it but it has survived a number of tank crashes and always gets it's color back in a hurry. It is definitely not your average green purple rimmed cap because when it's happy it has an EXTREMELY thick purple rim white/neon green polyps and cool nodule growth that is not common. So all in all I'm happy I paid the money for it because for me it has lived up to it's price. Do I think that it is the only lineage of cap like this? Of course not but you know what I knew that it had a proven history of these things so I paid for it and I'm happy I did.
Not to be offensive but you know what I'm sick of. People getting up on their high horses and preaching to me about what people should and should not do in the hobby. Weather it's not buying corals from certain people or telling me that I need to pay the mark up at LFS so that I can keep them in business.
End of rant. Hope I didn't offend anyone.
Although I do agree that there is a lot of marketing involved with these designer corals I also feel that there are some pretty significant benefits. Whether a person is willing to pay for these benefits is up to them. For me the benefits are
1) COLOR
I know that these corals have been kept colorful in a number of tanks not just mine. With wild caught corals it can be completely hit or miss as far as corals retaining their colors. Although a coral maybe beautiful in one reefers tank it may not keep its color in other peoples tank. This is much less of a risk with well known corals because they have proven that they can hold their colors under a wide range of parameters. Tyree goes so far as to "delist" corals if they don't continue to hold thier colors. I've never seen a coral with the blue color of an Oregon Tort and I don't think I ever will and you know what it's not hard to get it that color. For that I am willing to pay a premium.
2) HARDINESS
Again these corals are usually at least 2 3 generations from being wild caught. They have proven that they will survive in captivity. Much like tank raised fish have a higher survival rate in our tanks corals that have been in captivity for multiple generations also have a higher survivability rate.
3) FOR TRADING
For trading purposes it can be a lot easier to trade one well known coral for another well known coral when the two parties don't know each other or live down the street. Am I going to drive 3 hours when some one I don't know says I have a sweet purple coral? Probably not but if they have some Garf Purple Bonsai I probably would because of the reasons listed above.
It's up to you. Some people would rather save money and buy a KIA I would probably prefer a Honda or a Toyota. You know why because they have a proven track record that people are willing to pay for. These corals are usually initially expensive but drop in price significantly if you are willing to wait. I think the Idaho Grape and the Tubs Blue Zoos are two examples of this. What is an expensive LE one day can turn into a cheaper coral once it's more readily available. I believe Greg could attest to the fact that at one point Green Slimers and Orange Caps were rare sought after corals. People are going to pay for what they want. If they do then that is their choice and you certainly can't blame the person who is selling it to them. We live in a free market economy and I'm glad that we do.
As far as the purple rimmed cap aka the "Leng Sy Cap" I got mine from the guys over at Exotic Reefs. I was told by Alex AKA ROAB on Reef Central that Mike Palleta had initially though he lost this coral but realized that he had a small surviving piece that he grew out and fragged. Maybe we can ask him when he comes to speak to the club. I have absolutely tortured mine since I've owned it but it has survived a number of tank crashes and always gets it's color back in a hurry. It is definitely not your average green purple rimmed cap because when it's happy it has an EXTREMELY thick purple rim white/neon green polyps and cool nodule growth that is not common. So all in all I'm happy I paid the money for it because for me it has lived up to it's price. Do I think that it is the only lineage of cap like this? Of course not but you know what I knew that it had a proven history of these things so I paid for it and I'm happy I did.
Not to be offensive but you know what I'm sick of. People getting up on their high horses and preaching to me about what people should and should not do in the hobby. Weather it's not buying corals from certain people or telling me that I need to pay the mark up at LFS so that I can keep them in business.
End of rant. Hope I didn't offend anyone.
I'd say there are both types in the club.
I've had dealings with both.
I've bought a frag that was mailed to me, 50.00 SuperWoman Monti. The frag was so small I lost it in my tank. As in less than a 1/4" wide and 1/4" long.
Then I've bought frags for 5.00 that I would consider mini colonies.
Guess who I share with? The guy out to make a buck? Don't think so.
I've had dealings with both.
I've bought a frag that was mailed to me, 50.00 SuperWoman Monti. The frag was so small I lost it in my tank. As in less than a 1/4" wide and 1/4" long.
Then I've bought frags for 5.00 that I would consider mini colonies.
Guess who I share with? The guy out to make a buck? Don't think so.
