Need advice on new reef tank

[Dave T]

Plank looks like a winner. Thanks Joe!

So we are talking about auto water change water storage. With one tank to mix the salt water and one for storing mixed water. I guess this is how most people do it. What I’m wondering is why not just use one bigger tank for both. We are a bit limited for space, so having the mixing tank means having a smaller storage tank, half the size. Which means having to make salt water twice as often.

Why not just turn off your AWC, fill the tank with fresh water, add salt, mix, then turn on the AWC. You could have a level sensor in the tank that turned off the AWC when the water hit a certain level, so then you’d know how much fresh water and salt to add to the tank. Bad idea?

 

[N_E_M_O]

Plank looks like a winner. Thanks Joe!

So we are talking about auto water change water storage. With one tank to mix the salt water and one for storing mixed water. I guess this is how most people do it. What I’m wondering is why not just use one bigger tank for both. We are a bit limited for space, so having the mixing tank means having a smaller storage tank, half the size. Which means having to make salt water twice as often.

Why not just turn off your AWC, fill the tank with fresh water, add salt, mix, then turn on the AWC. You could have a level sensor in the tank that turned off the AWC when the water hit a certain level, so then you’d know how much fresh water and salt to add to the tank. Bad idea?

Yes bad Idea
2 seperate containers

 

[Joe Rice]

Why not just turn off your AWC, fill the tank with fresh water, add salt, mix, then turn on the AWC. You could have a level sensor in the tank that turned off the AWC when the water hit a certain level, so then you’d know how much fresh water and salt to add to the tank. Bad idea?

That's exactly what I do. Not perfect but still a huge improvement over manual water changes.

By "tank" I assume you mean container. In my case that container is a 50 gallon Brute

 

[Dave T]

Yes bad Idea
2 seperate containers

Can you elaborate why it’s a bad idea?

 

[Dave T]

By "tank" I assume you mean container. I. My case that container is a 50 gallon Brute

Yes, container. I can fit either two 100 gallon ones, or one 300 gallon one. (I know those don’t add up)

 

[MarkSzy]

Can you elaborate why it’s a bad idea?

It’s a bad idea because during the winter with that big of a tank you might need to top off a gallon or two of water a day. My 200g in the basement family room is topping off about 1.5 gallons a day. That being said if you have your ATO of for several days which is how long it takes to heat up your change water you will constantly be playing catch up with ATO and water changes. You are way better of with two smaller barrels then one IMO.

 

[srit1]

Dave, is there a separate ATO container? Your question is just about the AWC container right? Another reason to consider having 2 that are just for AWC is that anything that settles out during the mixing, stays in the mixing container and less of it transfers to the main AWC container. Also it is more feasible for you to clean that thing out from time to time if you want.

 

[Dave T]

Yes, there will be a separate ATO container. Much smaller, 30 gallons? I forget.

Sorry, Mark, I’m not following what you said. Firstly, I’m not sure it’s true that it will take several days to heat up the water change water. It’s plenty warm in the room it will be on, it’s next to our furnace. But why do I need to shut off ATO while the water change water is being “prepared”, anyway?

 

[MarkSzy]

Yes, there will be a separate ATO container. Much smaller, 30 gallons? I forget.

Sorry, Mark, I’m not following what you said. Firstly, I’m not sure it’s true that it will take several days to heat up the water change water. It’s plenty warm in the room it will be on, it’s next to our furnace. But why do I need to shut off ATO while the water change water is being “prepared”, anyway?

I may have miss understood you before then, I thought you wanted to have a an ATO that you could also use as a AWC.
I have a 15 gallon barrel that I use for my water changes and it is in my downstairs that is set to 65 degrees and it takes days for the water to get to 78.

 

[N_E_M_O]

So there are many reasons to have 2 separate containers;
First, ideally you can get a container that will hold whatever amount you are going to mix like i use Red Sea Coral Pro salt. I ALWAYS mix an entire bucket 150+/-gallons at one time. This will always give the most consistent results. I always mix for 12-24 hours before using.
You want to mix synthetic sea salt at a cold temp then when fully mixed bring up to temperature.
No matter what salt you use, you will have sediment in the mixing container. You don't want this to accidentally end up in the tank.
You should pull your mixing container and power wash it once or twice a year. Less of a PITA if its not connected like your AWC container will be.
If you have two seperate containers, you NEVER have to turn off or disconnect your AWC container
One less chance of adding water that is not 100% ready

 

[Dave T]

Ok, thanks.

 

[Joe Rice]

So there are many reasons to have 2 separate containers;
First, ideally you can get a container that will hold whatever amount you are going to mix like i use Red Sea Coral Pro salt. I ALWAYS mix an entire bucket 150+/-gallons at one time. This will always give the most consistent results. I always mix for 12-24 hours before using.
You want to mix synthetic sea salt at a cold temp then when fully mixed bring up to temperature.
No matter what salt you use, you will have sediment in the mixing container. You don't want this to accidentally end up in the tank.
You should pull your mixing container and power wash it once or twice a year. Less of a PITA if its not connected like your AWC container will be.
If you have two seperate containers, you NEVER have to turn off or disconnect your AWC container
One less chance of adding water that is not 100% ready

All good points.

If you go 1 or 2 containers, sizing so that you can mix an entire bucket or bag of salt saves a lot of time (and breathing of salt dust) over having to measure it out. And you don't have to worry about differential settling in the bucket/bag that might cause trace elements and perhaps even alk/ca/mg to get out of whack.

If you're planning on a continuous water change system, you won't have to worry about temperature. My system changes 2 gallons per day - spread over the whole day - into a 180 gallon total volume system. So no impact on the temperature of the overall system.

 

[Cooper2]

I've been a user of 44 gallon brute barrels for making RO water and mixing salt. After I gained experience and time with mixing I found the unavoidable residues left by all brands of salt. I've learned and strongly recommend a mixing container for salt no larger than you're willing and able to bring to a sink and rinse out. Be leery of any container too large to easily clean or you won't do it often enough. The Rubbermaid brand is virtually indestructible and I found an interesting trick with regard to "skimming" any residue before you even see it. If you fill close to the top of the barrel, say 2 or 3 inches from overflowing, then aerate with a big round airstone and the lid in place. The bubble action flings the chauky residue on the lid and it collects there. I noticed this by accident after leaving a lid off overnight and seeing it dry, I was surprised how much it removed from what you think is a fresh mix. Something else that makes using the barrels super easy is a float valve from your RODI unit that hops from barrel to barrel. I used a spare fleece filter mounting bracket that hangs on the rim of the barrel and mounted a float with a push lok fitting and valve. The lid holds it there, so need to drill holes in anything....lol
When not in use they stack taking up far less space than a monster mixing tank.

 

[N_E_M_O]

I've been a user of 44 gallon brute barrels for making RO water and mixing salt. After I gained experience and time with mixing I found the unavoidable residues left by all brands of salt. I've learned and strongly recommend a mixing container for salt no larger than you're willing and able to bring to a sink and rinse out. Be leery of any container too large to easily clean or you won't do it often enough. The Rubbermaid brand is virtually indestructible and I found an interesting trick with regard to "skimming" any residue before you even see it. If you fill close to the top of the barrel, say 2 or 3 inches from overflowing, then aerate with a big round airstone and the lid in place. The bubble action flings the chauky residue on the lid and it collects there. I noticed this by accident after leaving a lid off overnight and seeing it dry, I was surprised how much it removed from what you think is a fresh mix. Something else that makes using the barrels super easy is a float valve from your RODI unit that hops from barrel to barrel. I used a spare fleece filter mounting bracket that hangs on the rim of the barrel and mounted a float with a push lok fitting and valve. The lid holds it there, so need to drill holes in anything....lol
When not in use they stack taking up far less space than a monster mixing tank.

Unfortunately in many cases these are not big enough. But if you only need to mix 40g at a time they are a great option.

And you dont need to clean the residue too often mostly once or twice a year.

 

[coralfishreef]

Yes, container. I can fit either two 100 gallon ones, or one 300 gallon one. (I know those don’t add up)

1 ATO container and 2 mixing containers is nice to have.

With 2 mixing/holding containers, 1 is a holding container that has saltwater premixed at the desired salinity. The AWC or CWC uses the water in this container. New saltwater is mixed inside of the 2nd mixing container and is pushed into the 1st holding container as needed. With this setup you can always have saltwater for AWC or CWC without interruption.

With just 1 mixing/holding container you’ll want to fill and mix the full container and then remember to stop the AWC or CWC just before it’s fully empty. Depending on how large the container is, it can take many hours to fill. A 150 gpd RODI unit produces around 6.25 gal an hour. For a 55 gal brute that is around 9 hours. Add in another 24 hours or longer for the salt to thoroughly mix. This ends up being a 2 day interruption to the AWC or CWC. But, in practice, life will get in the way, you won’t have time, or you’ll forget to mix the salt, or miscalculate the amount of salt required. Before you realize it a week will go by and then another week will go by. This scenario is much less likely to occur with 2 mixing containers.

Another benefit with 2 containers is that you can have extra mixed water on standby in case of an emergency.

 

[Dave T]

Now I'm in a pickle with regard to lighting. I was set on the Orphek iCon panel lights. But I got one to test and my wife and I agree that the fan is too loud. Especially since we were planning on having 5 of them. Strangely, the fan comes on full speed at the 50% intensity setting. It gets quieter below 50%. The strange thing is that the fan speed seems to be totally dependent on the intensity setting, regardless of how hot the unit actually is.

So now I'm looking for silent lighting. The ATI Stratons look great, similar to the Orpheks but no fans. But the stratons don't have any shimmer. So for shimmer (and to improve spread and coverage a bit), I'm looking at adding some Orphek bars. I could have the Orphek 60" bars in the front and back. And then I could put some Orphek 24" bars between the Stratons. You're going to say that's overkill, but why not? Again, this is a 72x28x28 tank.

Something like this:

Thoughts? It's either that, or just have all bars - Orphek or others. With the Stratons, I'd have way more LEDs/sq ft than a bar only solution.... Or there's the Phillips Coralcare Gen2 panels, but the Stratons appear to be a little better to me.

If I do go with the Orphek bars, I need to decide on the Blue Plus vs the Day Plus.

 

[Chris A.]

I’ve seen a large tank with strat os and he’s running hydra 52’s between the strat os for shimmer

 

[chadfish]

Now I'm in a pickle with regard to lighting. I was set on the Orphek iCon panel lights. But I got one to test and my wife and I agree that the fan is too loud. Especially since we were planning on having 5 of them. Strangely, the fan comes on full speed at the 50% intensity setting. It gets quieter below 50%. The strange thing is that the fan speed seems to be totally dependent on the intensity setting, regardless of how hot the unit actually is.

So now I'm looking for silent lighting. The ATI Stratons look great, similar to the Orpheks but no fans. But the stratons don't have any shimmer. So for shimmer (and to improve spread and coverage a bit), I'm looking at adding some Orphek bars. I could have the Orphek 60" bars in the front and back. And then I could put some Orphek 24" bars between the Stratons. You're going to say that's overkill, but why not? Again, this is a 72x28x28 tank.

Something like this:
View attachment 173341

Thoughts? It's either that, or just have all bars - Orphek or others. With the Stratons, I'd have way more LEDs/sq ft than a bar only solution.... Or there's the Phillips Coralcare Gen2 panels, but the Stratons appear to be a little better to me.

If I do go with the Orphek bars, I need to decide on the Blue Plus vs the Day Plus.

My ReefBreeders have fans but they never come on

 

[N_E_M_O]

Hate to be the reality check here, but...

Fish tank = silent

Lmao

It's a fish tank with moving water simulating the ocean. I'm sorry but there is no such thing as silent. One must make sacrifices and compromises in life. This is definitely one of them.
I personally would never sacrifice or trade/substitute a quality product over some standard equipment noise.

I tell people if you want silent, don't get an aquarium. Get a picture or TV playing a video of a reef.

 

[Dave T]

Get a picture or TV playing a video of a reef.

Have you been talking to my wife?

So it turns out the Stratons are back-ordered 4-6 months. And ATI advises against using them in a canopy anyway. I've given up on trying to find a panel that doesn't have fans. But I at least want one that the fans are temperature controlled (like Reefbreeders, unlike Orphek). Anyone recommend anything over Reefbreeders?

Or the other option is light bars, perhaps even with some T5s mixed in.