sick clown

[gabrielstormont]

I started my first tank in January (29 gallon biocube). Shortly after adding fish, what I believe was marine velvet killed everything in about 3 days. (inverts were fine.) i slowly brought the temp up to about 82*F, bought a protein skimmer and a UV filter, and waited about 3 months before dropping the temp back to 79*F and trying to add fish again. I've tested everything: pH, nitrites, ammonia, salinity, carbonate hardness, CO2, everything is perfect. Now about a week after adding two clowns (the only fish) one is just swimming in place (on about a 45 degree angle- which is how the other also swims in that spot so I'm guessing it's just the current) and has no interest in eating. I'm a little panicked and my wife wants to give up on the tank all together. Any suggestions??

 

[pillowfish]

How did you acclimate the fish? When you say the water tested tested perfect, do you have some numbers to throw out there, it may help a bit in diagnosing the problem.

 

[gabrielstormont]

I don't remember them exactly, it was a couple of days ago. Conditions certainly could have changed, I'll retest everything and post the specifics. Also, his mouth is moving very quickly so it looks like he's struggling to breath.

 

[pillowfish]

YOu don't remember how you acclimated the fish?

For future reference I suggest testing the water from the LFS to see what the conditions were the fish came from to start with. It could give you some huge help noticing that a fish is going from a salinity of 1.018 at the LFS to an sg in your tank of 1.027.(I'm just sorta making those numbers up, but it is quite likely to have huge changes such as this). Quarantining any fish is always a good idea if you have the means to watch the fish for signs of stress/disease and also to help you slowly change the water parameters over from what the fish is accustomed to to what your tank water is actually at.

 

[gabrielstormont]

Sorry, forgot to answer the first question. To acclimate the fish I set up a water bath the same temp as the tank. Then I floated them in a clean tupperware and set up a slow drip siphon. After about an hour the water volume had more than doubled, so I added them to the tank. They seemed fine up until today. Also, I buy my water from the fish store where i bought the fish and do frequent water changes (5 gallons every 1-2 weeks) so the tank water should really be very close. They actually tested the salinity for me, and said it matched theirs.

 

[gabrielstormont]

pH 8.0
KH (carbonate hardness) 7.5 *dH (german hardness)
NO2- (nitrite) < 0.3 mg/L
NH3NH4+ (ammonia) 0 mg/L
CO2 (roughly calculated from pH and KH) 2.25mg/L

prior to my last water change I had measured a KH of 6.5 and calculated CO2 at 1.95

I don't have a decent hydrometer (I plan on getting a reef controller with probe if I can ever stop killing off fish) but they test it at "Something Fishy" when I purchase water for changes and it has always been consistent and matched store water. (I believe 1.020 they always approve reading) I did just realize that the last batch of bottled water i bought is "enhanced with minerals for flavor". I have used it to top off for evaporation. What can I try next???

 

[stingythingy45]

pH 8.0
KH (carbonate hardness) 7.5 *dH (german hardness)
NO2- (nitrite) < 0.3 mg/L
NH3NH4+ (ammonia) 0 mg/L
CO2 (roughly calculated from pH and KH) 2.25mg/L

prior to my last water change I had measured a KH of 6.5 and calculated CO2 at 1.95

I don't have a decent hydrometer (I plan on getting a reef controller with probe if I can ever stop killing off fish) but they test it at "Something Fishy" when I purchase water for changes and it has always been consistent and matched store water. (I believe 1.020 they always approve reading) I did just realize that the last batch of bottled water i bought is "enhanced with minerals for flavor". I have used it to top off for evaporation. What can I try next???

If I were you first thing I would get is a refractor.They can be bought for as little as $50 online.I got mine at www.drsfostersmith.com
Also,I'd get into the habit of mixing my own salt water.You can purchase good ro water at a place called Sea Creatures in N. Providence R.I.
The owner John will be more than happy to help with any questions as well.

 

[STiTCH87]

Never use any water other than RO (or RO/DI) at any time because other water can grow all sorts of nasty stuff you don't want. For example that red velvet stuff you mentioned before could be from poor water quality I would imagine.

+1 on mixing your own saltwater. It's cheaper, and you have the ability to know exactly what your tank is at and exactly what you are adding. Don't forget the temp of the water you add plays a huge roll as well.

If your clown is not eating, perhaps try a different food. For exmaple if you're feeding flake, try pellet or frozen. If you use frozen try pellet or flake, and so forth.

Eventually he should atleast pick at one of the 3 types. Also some brands my fish won't care for which may be what you're experiencing.

Marine Forumla One is loved by all my fish both saltwater and freshwater regardless of fish species. Just make sure you get omnivore/herbivore food and carnivore food sepearately for those whom need to eat one but not the other. Some fish can be picky eaters.

I had a PJ Cardinalfish that would not eat the pellets of either type, spit out any flakes and wouldn't touch bloodworms. Later found out I should've tried frozen brine/mysis enriched but unfortunately he passed away before I had the chance.

Just tinker with foods, mix you own salt, and keep an eye on them. They should hopefully be just fine. May still be getting used to things.

 

[Sherri]

How is the clown doing today? Is he still breathing hard? How's the other clown?

I have used this stuff called entice -- it works sometimes to get them eat but that doesn't deal with the core issue. Why he is breathing hard needs to be solved.

Breathing hard can be caused by a number of things; ich, gill flukes, stress!

I am wondering if the bottled water with the added minerals is causing a reaction. Can you get some rodi water to top off with from now on?

 

[gabrielstormont]

Still breathing hard, but the other clown is fine. I picked up an o2 test kit and got a reading of 6 or 7 ppm. Maybe this could be part of the problem, explains the lethargy and gasping towards surface of tank (pointed down due to current.) I adjusted power head up to disrupt water surface, will slowly bring temp down a little (at about 80, I'm paranoid about ick since my velvet incident)
I feed ocean nutrition formula 2. It's the same they were getting at the store. He ate aggressively the first few days. I also picked up a Pura filtration pad (filters lead, copper, silicates, phosphate, ammonia etc.). I had tried pellets last week for variety and both spit them out immediately. I'm going to try to fortify the frozen food with VitaChem.

 

[The Munch]

If you think O2 levels could be an issue, I've found that it can't really hurt to put an airstone in the tank on a temporary basis. With an airstone running you could pretty much rule out O2 levels as your problem.

 

[The Ng Thing]

What do you use for flow besides a powerhead, any filters? Is the skimmer still running? Just curious cause those can help oxygenate the water or may already be doing so. If thats the case the rapid breathing might be caused by something else. If your ever curious & have some money look into: Fish Disease: Diagnosis and Treatment by Edward Noga. It's an interesting book which lists various ailments and the possible causes. It even goes a step further and shows how to do fish autopsy's ! It may be a little too much but it's very interesting.

 

[tigerslacrosse4]

No its clown fish disease. I had the same problem is he/she laying on the sand? or rock or nem? you might want to give it a freshwater dip to clear some of the mucus out of his gills its a parasite most likely i would look into it.

 

[gabrielstormont]

not laying in the sand, just swimming in place pointed up, or down. still gasping, not eating. I set up a quarantine tank but I'm afraid the shock of acclamation might do it in.

 

[tigerslacrosse4]

just warm up some fresh water and put him in there for a min or so hang on ill get a link for you. if you dont do something your going to watch him suffer and get the other clown in QT also as soon as you take the sick one out the one thats healthy is going to get sick too just do them at the same time they will be more comfortable together dont seperate the pair unless you have to. they will stress if you do.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/ichparasiticdiseases/a/aabrooklynella.htm

 

[tigerslacrosse4]

basically what its telling you to do is put the clowns in hyposalinity killing any parasites that are on them and during the qt process the parasites in the tank should die with no host to live on. do you have damsels? if so it may be attacking them too check them out and see if they are healthy but a quick dip in freshwater may give the fish some relief by clearing its gills of mucus making it easier to breath and it will also kill off any parasites attached to it but not eliminate all of them make sure that you dont let the fish go free in the bucket though if you do you may not get it out of the FW in time to save it from lack of salinity and make sure you keep a close eye on it after the dip because it will probably be shocked from the dip.

"not laying in the sand, just swimming in place pointed up, or down. still gasping, not eating. I set up a quarantine tank but I'm afraid the shock of acclamation might do it in." as far as that goes the dip is his best shot leaving him in there is sealing his fate try the dip its better than doing nothing.

 

[gabrielstormont]

Thanks for the link, I appreciate the advice. However my clown doesn't have any external symptoms. The gasping, lethargy, vertical swimming and lethargy all fit but where it describes:
"the most noticeable difference that sets Brooklynella apart from Oodinium is the heavy amount of slime that is produced. As the disease progresses a thick whitish mucus covers the body, usually starting at the head and spreading outward, skin lesions appear"
My clown doesn't have anything that looks like that. I bought some mysis shrimp and garlic food enhancer. I think I'm going to get a tank divider but leave him in the main tank and see if the new food and lack of competition can get him to eat. Friday will be freshwater dip day if I don't see any improvement. I'm still afraid to move him to the QT.

 

[tigerslacrosse4]

the mucus and skin lesions appear at later stages almost right before death i can almost promise that if that fish touches the sand that it will stick to it.

 

[The Ng Thing]

@ tigerslacrosse - thats a good call

@gabrielstormont - after rereading my post, I'm sorry if my previous post was inappropriate/not addressing the point. I think if your QT is set up with the same water from your tank/same temp you shouldn't have to worry about the stress of acclimating him there. Use a cup, not a net, to keep him in water at all times and transfer him. You can drip him too if you want. To reduce "the chase" get him at night when he's sleeping.

If he does have what tigerslacrosse suggested, you don't want to wait for him to develop the full body mucus & or secondary ailments. By that time a FW dip & or QT will kill him from stress. Your best course of action is to put him in a stress situation while he still acts strong (eating) not waiting until the near end.

A QT would be a good place to at least moniter him if/when he develops secondary symptoms. I think what your doing now is fine, separating him and observing because his ailments now seem like a stress response. Just be vigilant. The important thing is don't wait until he develops serious secondary symptoms before addressing them.

 

[Sherri]

Doing a freshwater dip is a scary thing but it does help the fish. The main thing to remember is that the temp and pH of both waters need to match. It sounds like you are not sure of the right treatment. It is tough to do the QT right and if you do not have a tank set up with a good biological filter then keeping them put is best IMHO. Take it from someone who has had several fish die in QT. Eating is important though. Also, here a great site for trying to figure out what is wrong.

http://www.nationalfishpharm.com/diseases.html