Solaris LEDs

[Aquadan88]

Thanks for the info. Any reason why you think these would be good only on a 55 gallon tank?

Sorry, I'll explain again.

I have used an older model Solaris on a 150 48" custom acrylic tank. Because of the way that the LEDs are positions (in 4 blocks evenly spanned from eachother), and the way the LEDs are made (with a white shell that directs the light directly downward. I forget what the "term" the manufacturer used), you're left with blotchy patches of light and dark in the tank. I took it off the custom tank and replaced it with an Icecap MH/VHO Pendant.

 

[jtma508]

I heard back from James Fatherree, the person who was responsible for the 'Liquid Medium' review linked above. They did reveiw the I-4 so that data is based on the 25 LED/foot using the Luxeon K2 (2x2) LEDs. The I-5 uses the Luxeon Rebels. So, the bottom line is the data in the review is not for the I-5.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Bottom Line

I heard back from James Fatherree, the person who was responsible for the 'Liquid Medium' review linked above. They did reveiw the I-4 so that data is based on the 25 LED/foot using the Luxeon K2 (2x2) LEDs. The I-5 uses the Luxeon Rebels. So, the bottom line is the data in the review is not for the I-5.

What does this imply for the I5? Is the I5 more powerful?

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

I5

Very strange...The I5 specs on the championlighting site says there are 25 LEDs in each array:

I5 Series (400W 15k Equivalent) Detail Specifications

Each 12” section of hood has 25-Next Generation 4 Watt LEDs for a total of 100Watts per foot. The LEDs are mounted 5 LEDs per circuit board. If one LED fails then the 5 LED board needs to be replaced. This circuit board replacement is designed to be performed in the field if needed.


But the PFO site states:

LEDS were changed from 25 K2 driven at 1000ma to 30 Rebels driven at 800 ma.

 

[jtma508]

I got my info directly from PFO as I posted above. 30 Rebel LEDs in the I-5.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

I got my info directly from PFO as I posted above. 30 Rebel LEDs in the I-5.

So the I-5 will be 120 Watts per array (30 x 4 = 120 Watts) vs 100 Watts?

 

[jtma508]

Not quite that simple unfortunately. Remember, the K2's were being driven at 1000ma. The Rebels are driven at 800ma. So, the K2's were running at ~120w/foot and the Rebels are running at ~96w/foot even though there are 5 more LEDs. Also, watts has more to do with power consumption than light output. Just because two light fixtures consume the same amount of power (watts) doesn't necessarily mean they produce the same amount of light. Some of that power is converted to heat. The more efficient the lamp the greater the edge it has.

 

[Sean Irwin]

One potential problem of an LED fixture would be the diminished expression of UV quenching fluorescent pigments.

 

[jtma508]

From the spectral graphs I've seen of the LED's in both the AI and PFO fixtures there's virtually no UV at all.

 

[Sean Irwin]

From the spectral graphs I've seen of the LED's in both the AI and PFO fixtures there's virtually no UV at all.

Exactly. Without a certain amount of UV, many of the pigments and proteins may be downregulated. Ideally, such fixtures could incorporate supplemental T5 to provide some UV and to also assist with the odd light spread.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Uv

Exactly. Without a certain amount of UV, many of the pigments and proteins may be downregulated. Ideally, such fixtures could incorporate supplemental T5 to provide some UV and to also assist with the odd light spread.

Isn't UV bad for corals?

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Solaris

I just learned, from an email from PFO, that the 48" Solaris outputs the equivalent of 2 x 400 W 15k MH. So using 2 of these would be equivalent to 4x400 = 1600W of MH lamps. My current lighting is only 1000 Watts so my guess i that I could move the Solaris fixtures higher to fill in the dark spots and maybe maintiain my current lighting output (or more).

Now I gotta convince the wifey.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

UV is Bad, Right?

According to the article a few years back by Dana Riddle*, elimination of UV is a good thing for corals:


"Very low heat production is perhaps the greatest advantage of LEDs. Circulation pumps will add more heat than this lighting system, but this can be overcome easily through use of a relatively large sump or by airlifts (which are practical in systems compatible with the small size of the 14” Solaris luminaires). Aquaria large enough to accommodate larger Solaris models will also benefit from lessened lamp-to-water heat transfer.

Another advantage is the practically non-existent ultraviolet radiation. Heat and UV are known causes of coral bleaching. See the PFO Solaris website at www.pfolighting.com for a ‘cost-savings’ calculator and details on the features that my prototype does not have."

* Product Review: A New Horizon in Lighting: PFO's Solaris LED System, Dana Riddle, Advance Aquarist Online Magazine, 2006

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Hmmmm...from all of the reading over on RC, I have learned that the models made in China suffered many quality issues. I would definitely be interested in how the quality of the new American made models compares to the Chinese made models.

 

[rfkeeper55]

DIY LEDs?

Sorry to jump on this threat with another question but........has anyone considered a DIY LED fixture? I've found a few sites for parts and yea it may not have the same cool features as the solaris but you could probably arrange the same lights for a significantly cheaper price

Here is an LED website: http://www.luxeonstar.com/luxeon-rebels-c-28.php

And some specs. were found here: http://www.forbiddenreef.com/product.php?productid=16199&cat=0&bestseller=Y



Just wondering

 

[jtma508]

There's a thread on RC of a couple people building (what they say) are very effective DIY LED fixtures.

It was my understanding as well that UV was undesirable. Does anyone have numbers for UV for T-5 or MH?

 

[JohnK]

Here's Peter's reccent DIY LED;
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68942

And Jeff's reccent DIY LED;
http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=72860


"I just learned, from an email from PFO, that the 48" Solaris outputs the equivalent of 2 x 400 W 15k MH. So using 2 of these would be equivalent to 4x400 = 1600W of MH lamps"

Which 400w 15K, on which ballast and in which reflector? Nothing against LED ligthing or PFO, but the above sounds like a nice marketing line much more than any sort of fact IMO.

LED techonolgy certainly has a lot of potential, but I sure wouldn't want to be the guine pig for something this expensive...

 

[jtma508]

Jimmy... to be fair, I don't think we're still in the guinea pig stage at this point. As I mentioned earlier, I contacted Dana Riddle about LED's since his was the first comprehensive test of both the earlier PFO unit and AI's. He told me that he has since switched exclusively to LED lighting.

I agree, PFO needs to provide a bit more detail on the testing of their fixture regarding PAR. AI did post specifics on their comparison: 250w 20k XM in a Spider reflector and on an IceCap ballast.

Similarly, Dana Riddle compared the AI LED against a MH. He provids this detail: "The metal halide (an XM 250-watt 20,000K; burn time ~100 hours) used a polished aluminum parabolic reflector and was driven by a Coralife ballast. There was no ‘shield’ between the lamp and sensor. PAR measurements were taken every 1” across a black grid."

Dana also tested the earlier PFO 'G' series (75w) also comparing it against an XM 250w 20K MH driven by a CoralLife ballast. He reported that the 75w 'G' series (the I-5 is reportedly 2.5 times brighter) produced 89.4% of the PAR of the 250w MH. And in all cases this is based upon a single 1ft LED fixture.

There is alot of good data published. But again, I agree, PFO would be doing everyone a favor to arrange to have a well-designed, independent analysis done on their I-5. I'm planning on going LED in the near future and I'd love to see a PFO-AI head-to-head comparison.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Estimated DIY Cost for 2 x 48 Inch "Solaris" Panels

Here is the link to LumiLED LEDs used in Solaris fixtures
http://www.luxeonstar.com/luxeon-rebels-c-28.php


I did a quick calculation on the cost of the LEDs for 2 x 48" "Solaris" DIY panels.

I would need the following:

136 Cool White (180 lumens each) = 881.28
88 Royal Blues (525 mW@ 700mA) = 334.40
16 Cyan(130 lm @ 700 mA) = 68.00

TOTAL LED COST = 1283.68

240 Lenses = 681.60

Power Supplies (8 , each powers 30 LEDs) = 503.20
( I could not find a power supply on the LumiLed site to power 60 LEDs which is what the Solaris fixture uses)

TOTAL COST = $2468.48 for 2 x 48 panels

Other costs would include a microcontroller, keypad/display, and housing, wire, etc I estimate would cost no more than $500.

So my total cost would be around $3000.00 vs $5600. Plus I would have to build it and this takes time. Hmmmmm.... I think I would rather buy these as opposed to building them.

 

[JohnK]

"I agree, PFO needs to provide a bit more detail on the testing of their fixture regarding PAR."

Thats all I was really saying, and I agree that LED's are past the pure guine pig stage, but this is still very new and very expensive technology. (I wonder if Dana Riddle paid for his fixtures?)

I was really objecting to the claim that a 48" fixture was equal to 2x400w MH 15k. Everyone here knows that that is a major oversimplification at best (I think?). Do they mean PAR, color temp, energy consumption, some majical matrix that can compare all aspects of a reef light system.....?

I just liken this to a new model american made car - Yea it will go, stop, turn and maybe even look cool. But how many recalls and dumb problems are going to pop up? Sweet ride, but how sweet if it's in the shop for 10 work days during the first year?