Marine Ick (Input, Useful Thread?, Please Read)

[Matt L.]

I noticed recently that many club members have been running afoul of the dreaded Marine Ick as of late. I also noticed that we don't seem to have a Marine Ick thread in the Useful Threads sticky, or at least being a man I could find it. There is a permanent thread over on RC about Ick in the Fish Disease forum. The articles included are wonderfully written and researched, but due to the thorough discussion of extensive details, they are also quite verbose.

While Ick may be a complex parasite, dealing with Ick in the reef hobby is actually quite straightforward. Therefore, I thought it might be a good idea to put together a concise BRS consensus on Ick.

I'll start a framework, but I really want this to initially be a living document. In other words, everyone should feel free to add, modify, or request deletion of information contained herein.

It took me a few years before I fully understood Ick and how to prevent it, and the logic behind treating Ick is somewhat convoluted. However, I feel that there is a general agreement in the hobby, and I will try to provide that consensus as clearly as possible.

Hopefully, each time someone encounters Marine Ick, we can point to this thread and save ourselves lots of typing.

Matt

 

[Matt L.]

Part I: Preventing Ick

The first topic I would like to cover is preventing Ick.




Marine Ick is what's called on obligate parasite of fish. The bad news is that its a parasite, meaning that the organism feeds off the flesh of the fish. Ew. The good news for us is that it is an obligate parasite, meaning that Ick cannot complete its life cycle without a fish host. A diagram of the life cycle can be found here. The bottom line is: no fish, no Ick. Period. When the Ick organism hatches, it has to find a fish host to feed off of. The Ick organism simply starves to death in quite a short time without a fish.

I don't know who came up with the concept (it wasn't me), but I like to tout the two lines of defense theory against Ick:

1. The First Line of Defense is simply not to introduce Ick into your aquarium.
2. The Second Line of Defense is to manage Ick once in your aquarium.

What many hobbyists don't realize is that:

Once the first line of defense is breached, once Ick is introduced to your aquarium, you have no choice but to manage the Ick -- the only sure-fire way to remove Ick from a reef aquarium is to remove all the fish and allow the aquarium to remain fallow for 6-8 weeks. There are many treatment remedies for Ick in a reef system, but most have been demonstrated to simply manage the symptoms of Ick. You do not need to see Ick spots on a fish for it to be present in your system.

I'd like to point out that this discussion really is geared towards reef aquariums or aquariums with invertebrates. For those with Fish Only systems, you can proceed on to the hyposalinity section.

Not Introducing Ick to the Aquarium:

The only way to ensure your fish never come down with Ick is to make sure you don't ever introduce Ick into your system. And this means quarantine. Any fish you buy or acquire should be assumed to be contaminated with Ick even if you don't see spots. You do not always need to see the spots for the Ick parasite to be present. But how do you quarantine fish if Ick requires fish to complete its lifecycle? Simple. You quarantine your fish in an Ick-hostile environment. Thankfully, fish can survive conditions invertebrates cannot, and what kills invertebrates seems to kill Ick. For example, Ick cannot survive in a hyposaline environment. Even with a fish present, it will simply die. The important thing about quarantine is that you must quarantine for the entire lifecycle of the Ick parasite, which can be 6-8 weeks.

Now, its not enough to simply quarantine all incoming fish. Ick can be introduced to your system on any drop of water; any coral frag, live rock, live sand, macroalgae, hermit crab, snail, anemone, et cetera. Therefore, you need to quarantine every non-fish added to your system as well. Because the Ick hostile environment of the fish quarantine system will kill invertebrates, you may require an entire second quarantine system for everything else. There must be no fish in this second quarantine system. Without a fish being present, even if conditions are otherwise ideal, the Ick cannot complete its lifecycle. The same period of 6-8 weeks must also be used. It may be possible to combine these two quarantine systems, but just use the same system for fish or inverts at different times.

Remember, if you bypass just one drop of water around the first line of defense, you risk blowing the entire effort of quarantine.

Managing Ick in the Aquarium:

Because of the effort involved in quarantine, many hobbyists choose to just manage Ick in their systems. In theory, happy healthy fish should be able to keep Ick in check with their immune systems. Ick is never eradicated from the system. It continues to re-infect. But the fish deals with the infection. Again, just because you don't see a spot doesn't mean Ick isn't there.

Ick can be the canary in the coal mine. If something goes wrong and conditions become sub-optimal, an Ick outbreak may be the first sign you notice. Ick may also not be lethal to fish unless the fish has been weakened. I would be inclined to say that the following conditions all attribute to optimal reef keeping:

• Not overstocking
• Keeping nitrates low
• Preventing temperature and pH fluctuations
• Performing water changes
• Minimizing stress
• Feeding a healthy and balanced diet
• Avoid aggressive fish pairings
• Provide plenty of hiding places
• allow the aquarium to be completely dark at night for several hours
• Maintaining constant salinity
• Making sure your system is established long before adding fish
• Adding fish slowly

I'm sure many people have others to add. The important thing is that once you resign yourself to managing Ick in your system, i.e. your first line of defense has been breached, you kind of have the duty of maintaining a stress free environment in order to prevent fish from becoming stressed.




I hope this provides a framework from which to work more on. I'd like to talk about treatment remedies in the next reply, and I hope people can suggest edits and changes to the above.

Matt

 

[Matt L.]

Possible topics to discuss next are:
* How to set up a quarentine tank.
* How to do hyposalinity (important. I need input here)
* Remedies such as garlic, cleaner shrimp/fish, and UV
* Copper

 

[Triggerfish]

the logic behind treating Ick is somewhat convoluted. However, I feel that there is a general agreement in the hobby

Really? i think besides the use or quarantine tanks, agreement with treating the #1 prevalent parisite in the marine world is about as widespread as it gets.


many trials/errors as well as the most lengthy discussion about the topic on the web can be found in the link below..

 

[Matt L.]

I think when there's a difference of opinions on something, such as whether garlick manages Ick, it is sufficient to say that there is a disparity of views. That's it. I don't want to have an argument over garlick, for example. My goal was to just try and codify in a concise manner (i.e., not 12+ pages of RC thread ) what works, what doesn't, and what may or may not.

I am interested in whether any corrections need to be made to my first post regarding Ick prevention and quarantine.

I am also interested in hearing from people who have used hyposalinity.

Matt

 

[Triggerfish]

yes,,a summary would be nice..some of the link info on RC is outdated.

i'll go through your write-up tomorrow. problem is regarding what works what doesn't probably varies due to the various strains encountered.

 

[~Flighty~]

I think one of the most important and most commonly overlooked issue with this topic is diagnosis. Without any thought to diagnosis ich becomes a catch all name for anything that causes white dots on a fish.

I think it is important to answer:
How do you know your fish has Crypyocaryon irritans?
Could it be Amyloodinium ocellatum or isopods or any number of other issues.

 

[Matt L.]

That's a very good point. And I think I saw a link with pictures showing the different diseases. Let me see if I can find it...

Matt

 

[rich]

ick overview

From what I have read your overview was perfect but you may need a seperate thread to debate all the "cures" in attempting to treat ick with fish in the tank. Am I wrong when I say there is no debate over how to cure ick? Let your tank cycle without any fish(maybe an old wives tail but I was told that mandarin gobies can't carry ick and don't have to be q.t.ed) for 6 to 8 weeks period end of story. Of course I should have said in a reef tank because in a fowlr tank or fish only you could treat with a steady dose of copper but from what I have read even copper or hyposalinity low salt levels don't guarantee to kill ick and hyposalinity has to be done very slowly. And in my experience everything else besides letting your tank cycle 6 to 8 weeks without fish are a waste of my hard earned money and snake oil. Thus a proper qt is essential. I would love to see some pics of classic ick and some of things that look similar but aren't.

 

[JohnK]

Great summary Matt.

Rich?

When you say mandarin goby, do you mean a Synchiropus "mandarin fish"? I ask because I've wanted to add one but was under the impression that they weren't likely to survive QT because of lack of natural food.

Got any links or more info on this?

Also,
from my reading and personal exp hypo can be started fairly quickly (as low as 4 days transition time), but the sensitive part is actually when you bring the salinity back up, then it's more important to move slowly. It's also critical to use a good refractometer or you can't really do the treatment safely and reliably.

Anybody have any more good summary links to add?

 

[Triggerfish]

gggg

The first topic I would like to cover is preventing Ick.
I hope people can suggest edits and changes to the above

"Marine Ick "

Marine "Ich" - Ichthyophthirius multifiliis


"only sure-fire way to remove Ick from a reef aquarium is to remove all the fish and allow the aquarium to remain fallow for 6-8 weeks"

6 is a bit light, 7 is not wrong, 8 is better. i would recommend fallow for minimum of 8 weeks.


"You quarantine your fish in an Ick-hostile environment"

this is a debatable topic. some will argue: if the fish does not display any outward signs of illness/disease no need to pre-treat and add undue stress to the fish.
however, i am in favor of a preventive treatment of new arrivals and prefer to pre-treat with a therapeutic level of copper for 2 weeks (i believe .20 for cupramine), and monitor fish for an additional 4 weeks to ensure fish is clean.
If parasite is noticed anytime during quarantine, then full treatment is administered. important not to notice anything for min of 6 weeks. bright light is needed to view.
i believe the Pittsburgh aquarium pretreats all incoming fish with hypo for i forget how long, and have not had a parasite outbreak since doing so with no ill effects on the quarantined livestock.


"Ick can be introduced to your system on hermit crab, snail, anemone Therefore, you need to quarantine every non-fish added to your system"

if the inverts came from a system that did not contain fish for at least 8 weeks, then it would be safe to say, the inverts obtained from within would not contain ich cysts.
also, it has been noted, scrubing the shells of crabs/snails would remove the cysts if attached.. however, if they are located inside the shells, that may be a possible entry area.
cysts attaching to anemones/softies is remote, but anything can be a risk facter i guess.


"Managing Ick in the Aquarium:
In theory, happy healthy fish should be able to keep Ick in check with their immune systems. Ick is never eradicated from the system. It continues to re-infect. But the fish deals with the infection. Again, just because you don't see a spot doesn't mean Ick isn't there."

this is certainly a hit and miss theory, certain fish have, by nature, thicker slime coats(mandarins) and are able to counteract attacks with more efficiency.
health of a fish is not a prerequisite for infection. however, weaker ill fish have a greater chance of becoming more heavily infected and may succumb sooner due to inability to produce enough slime. secondary infections are also more prevalent.
the problem i found was the ich began to infect vulnerable areas like the eyes and gills..once gills become infected, the fish begins to slowly suffocate.
i recently had two, otherwise healthy fish, begin to have this problem. immediate intervention is needed, FW baths will provide quick relief.

there is some sparse documentation regarding the longevity of c.irritan cells. it's possible that the strain of cells will die after 32 cycles, roughly 10-11 months. so if you introduce a strain in the system, it may be possible that it will eradicate itself with that time period. i am possibly currently experimenting with this theory.

only one part of the lifecycle is visible, after it gorges itself on the fishes body and is ready to burst off. you may see this or miss it,,but it's there.
the chance of the parasite constantly infecting hidden gill areas cycle after cycle i would think is remote. if it does, your fish should certainly show signs of distress, twitching, rubbing gill area, whitish patches.


"Ick may also not be lethal to fish unless the fish has been weakened."

i agree it may not be. i have found that smaller fish, blennies and gobies do not get as infected or it is difficult to notice. Some fish are able to continue to survive through the constant mild-moderate attacks it receives over the months.
some fish will develop a partial immunity after the first attack that can last 6 months.


"The important thing is that once you resign yourself to managing Ick in your system, i.e. your first line of defense has been breached, you kind of have the duty of maintaining a stress free environment in order to prevent fish from becoming stressed."

overall i agree with this, even though i'm on a quest to be 'ich free'.
however, i have been able to manage the outbreaks over the past year with 1direct loss due to the parasite. basically i chose not to break the tank down again to remove a coral beauty that was heavily infested; not good.
some aquarists will deal with the losses as they come, others may resort to full eradication attempts.

 

[Triggerfish]

from my reading and personal exp hypo can be started fairly quickly (as low as 4 days transition time), but the sensitive part is actually when you bring the salinity back up

i have read from Leebca or TerryB on RC that fish can be placed directly into hypo conditions with no ill effects..never have done this myself though.

yes, coming out of hypo needs to be done slowly, how slow can vary i think.
i normally try not to go more than .02 within 12 hours.

 

[seahorse1]

What should the salinity be with hyposalinity?

 

[zemuron114]

im a firm believer that no matter what you do ICH ill always be present. You could keep a fallow tank for a year, QT fish as long as you want, and if you stress them out they will still get it. there are only remedies of ICH. It is impossible to completely rid a system of it, IMO...

 

[JohnK]

Most of what I've read on hypo suggests 1.009. Personally I've done the treatment at 1.008 max (when it would get to 1.008 I would add top off). Didn't lose any fish, treated for 9 weeks.

Most important things are; use a refractometer, check salinity daily or close to it, transition slowly after treatment, and don't rush it.

Zemuron- I won't argue, but I'm firm with the opposite opinion. I've done hypo more than once and never had a reccurance without an identifiable source to reintroduce the parisite. I've also had some Major stressors occur and seen no reccurance. There are a lot of opinions and experiences out there. One of the biggest unknown variables is different strains of the parasite, It does seem quite probable to me that there are some that can lay dormant for much longer than others, and also there may be strains that are far more resistant to treatments than others. Check out triggerfish's RC link, lots of experiences to support both opinoins. I guess the jury is still out more or less.