Must Read Tank Crash!

[G.T]

This Story is very real, and never in my 27 years of Reefing. Have i experienced this. I have read on many forums about this! But never thought it would happen to me.
Got home yesterday afternoon, to find my Nano tank looking Milky and fish gasping for air. All snails, hermits, serpent stars are already dead. Panic sets in and i pull the 2 clowns out and put them in a fresh mix, that i had prepared to do a WC later on that day. They showed improvement within a few minutes. i then quickly stripped the rest of the tank, and got rid of the dead inverts. I thought straight away, because of heavy breathing, it was some type of ammonia issue. Did a test, and as usual 0 ammonia 0 nitrite. Lots of head scratching. A 100% WC all 5.5 gallons. Fresh carbon in my small HOB Filter.
So fresh water, fresh carbon. put rock and corals back in tank. Corals still looking sad. Did another ammonia test, and again clear. Put the fish in, and within minutes they are gasping for breath at the bottom. Stripped tank again. So pissed at this time and completely lost to whats going on. So after more WC;s i sat down and did some brainstorming. I then took the filter off the back of the tank, and then i found the answer! Behind the cage on the inlet out of sight, was a small unattached pile of Palys. Which had poisoned the tank through there Toxic make up. Plus where i was wiping my wet hands on my butt and Privates i had come out in a nasty Rash! And Not a Dirty women in sight lol.
Anyways all joking aside, just remember that Palys carry a nasty Toxin. Under the right circumstances can do a lot of damage.
i washed the filter out, more fresh carbon. Another WC and issue resolved. Total loss of inverts fish saved, and a lesson learned. Thank you for reading.

 

[jah-hoeva]

Can a rbta that setup shop right next to some palys be an issue for a tank? Still learning about them.

 

[dz6t]

What salt do you use?


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[G.T]

What salt do you use?


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Aqua Forest ProBiotic.

 

[mnavick]

A Lot of scary stories out there on Palytoxin, some have been rushed to the Hospital!!

 

[fitch4]

My most recent issue may/may not have been a result of the palys in my school tank. I had done a water change and done some "harvesting" of bubble algae in the tank, including some that were mixed in with the palys. The next day all the SPS were bleaching and dying back. 50gal water change followed by another 40gal the next day and some carbon and I seem to be back on track but it was scary for a day or two... There were a few other suspects as far as the cause goes but the Paly's that I roughed up in my cleaning are certainly a suspect. I have been carefully working on cutting the colonies back and getting them out of my display reef. Gotta be careful with them for sure!

 

[STiTCH87]

I would question whether the palythoas are what crashed the tank. They release toxins when broken open, not on their own. The milky color is what leads me the most to believe something much different. As stated, did you own any anemones?

I have had palythoa toxica before (I was one of the one's mentioned who needed to go to the hospital), and the side effects are very clear to being specifically palythoa toxica. A reaction generally occurs through ingestion or through cuts. The toxins must enter the blood stream, and generally will not cause a rash on external skin unless you have a specific allergy to it (which IS possible!). An anemone however would absolutely cause a rash, especially if in contact with those areas.

So it COULD be the palys, but i'd personally put them at the bottom of the potential list. Either way, sorry for your loss and hope you find answers soon! I've been here before and it's awful.

 

[Greg Hiller]

A good reason always to be running a fair bit of carbon. I've become a strong believer in lots of activated carbon, particularly in a tank with large colonies.

 

[dz6t]

May be just a bacteria bloom and depleted the oxygen in such a small tank.

 

[dz6t]

There is a possibility that the probiotic salt cause the tank crash.
First of all, it contains bacteria the preserved via freeze dry process and will come back to life upon mixing the salt.
Second, it contains Amino Acids and vitamin (unknown amount),

Basically by using this salt, you are carbon dosing unknown amount of organic carbon. Without effective skimming due to such small tank size, bacteria went nuts and depleted oxygen.

 

[dz6t]

I am trying out AquaForest reef salt WITHOUT the "probiotic".
Actually, they don't even made the probiotics salt for years to sell in EU. After they had the US distributor, they restarted the production of probiotic salt. Go figure.

 

[Frag Freaks]

May be just a bacteria bloom and depleted the oxygen in such a small tank.

There is a possibility that the probiotic salt cause the tank crash.
First of all, it contains bacteria the preserved via freeze dry process and will come back to life upon mixing the salt.
Second, it contains Amino Acids and vitamin (unknown amount),

Basically by using this salt, you are carbon dosing unknown amount of organic carbon. Without effective skimming due to such small tank size, bacteria went nuts and depleted oxygen.

Dong, I think you are right here. I recently read some articles about this salt when I heard it was back in the market. If I remember correctly someone had recommended that if you are making the switch to this salt that one shouldn't do so at once due it containing the probiotic bacteria culture medium for the amino and vitamins.

So based on that it would seem your assumption of a bacteria bloom in that size of a tank depleted all of the oxygen causing the crash.

 

[dz6t]

Vitamins only last about 8 hr in reef tank according to some study I read. Amino acids will also be quickly depleted or degraded. In my opinion these additives should be dosed on a regular basis instead of puting them into salt mix unless one change water very frequently.

 

[G.T]

Nothing to do with salt! no salt was changed before the crash. The palys were clogged around the intake of the hob filter and broke up! No anemones. Sheesh
I swear by that probiotic Salt. I have seen a large change in the size of my LPS especially in my Display Tank.

 

[STiTCH87]

I still disagree that a few torn palys would cloud an entire tank, kill SPS, and cause external skin rashes.

I 3rd/4th agree with the salt being the culprit if no anemone/slug/nudibranch present.
Bacterial blooms and oxygen depletion could indeed do that.

If there was goop in the overflow that could've been expelled zooxanthellae from dying SPS maybe?

 

[Bandit13]

If the salt supposedly was the problem wouldn't the tank crash continue or worsen in a few days if G.T. did massive water changes to remedy the problem? The palys were likely the problem like he stated. Their toxin is potent and they likely released some being in the stressed state.

 

[bdaley]

On the Palys issue, I have ripped a hand full of Nuclear Greens out of my tank tearing a lot of them in the process with out a problem on my than one occasion. Now maybe if they started to rot in the back that might be a different issue, but I find toxin release never an Issue, I have had a full grown long horn die in my tank and that caused not one problem like I was promised would. I nothing about the salt in question, have used red sea pro forever. But hope all works out.

 

[G.T]

The issue which a lot of you guys seem to miss, is that its in a 5 gallon tank! Not a huge display lol.

 

[JohnK]

I usually associate paly toxins with danger to people more than tank crashes. Makes me wonder, but a wad of shredded palys in 5 gallons of water sounds like a pretty potent tea.

Sorry for the loss.

 

[G.T]

I usually associate paly toxins with danger to people more than tank crashes. Makes me wonder, but a wad of shredded palys in 5 gallons of water sounds like a pretty potent tea.

Sorry for the loss.

All sorted now. Just lost snails hermits and serpents. Once i found the palys on the intake shroud. Did a 100% water change, fresh carbon and it was fine. So pleased it could of been worse. My rash as now gone, so a lesson learned.