Angel looking terrible

[Sherri]

Okay -- I treated with Prozipro, and now it looks like ich. She swimming slower, did not eat as well, and when I got back from work tonight -- she looks terrible. The tang still looks okay and I cannot see the gobies. So, can I add cupramine in after the tank has been treated with prozipro? The instructions say not to use with any other medications but I hear people say they treated with both. Help???? Don't know if she is going to make it.

 

[wrassefan]

Sherri, in my past experience, Angels never did well with Copper. Plus in your case, I would not treat with 2 meds at the same time. Might want to do a water change and run some fresh carbon.

 

[Sherri]

I have changed out some of the water using water I pulled out of the main system --- about 10% -- had water mixing but salinity was low and am waiting to let it mix longer after I added more salt. I put the skimmer back on. The copper says not to use with any other medication. I really seem to do better with corals thank fish. As fas as carbon, I could add a bag in a fluval3 filter I guess. I took the UV Filter off too as I treated with the prozipro -- I could add that back in too. I don't know what else to do!

 

[Amazon]

What copper are you going to use? Is it cupramine? I've used both together safely before. But I have no experience with angels. But given plenty of time, I would remove the copper, then treat with prazi.

I had a yellow corris wrasse with did not tolerate the copper treatment and did not recover. I know prazi can be not well tolerated by *some* fish. I did not know that included angels.

What I've done is started day one with a half dose and observed for the first 24 hours for signs of stress. If they're acting normal I add the second half the next day then I start counting treatment days. Sorry I didn't mention this earlier

So you are seeing signs of ick? For sure? I suppose the only thing to do is run the course of copper (I presume you've ruled out hypo). I would remove the prazi with carbon & the water change and observe the angel. You'll need to make a judgement call. But I think cupramine is pretty safe (again, I've not dealt with angels!). You could probably start the copper treatment right away and give them some relief. Again, you could start a lower dose one day one and observe and increase on day two.

Make sure to test the copper levels! And remember, any rock and sand you have in there is forever contaminated if you leave it in.

good luck!

 

[Sherri]

I did a big water change but I think it is too late. She was swimming slowly this morning but I have been at work all day. I also cannot stay home tomorrow. I see white dots on her fins, her coloring is terrible, and she is having a hard time breathing. If she makes it I will be shocked. I can't figure out a way to do carbon. I ordered an eheim filter but the useless company is taking forever to even ship it. Don't know if I should add the cupramine or just wait. I can do another big water change in the morning, run the skimmer all night and the UV -- then add a small bit of the cupramine in the morning after changing the water? I saw a flash of a gobie so I am hoping they are just hiding out. Saw the tang too ... again ... just hiding out. Could use a miracle just about now. Oh -- and the rhinopias has decided to go on hunger strike and won't eat.

 

[Amazon]

aw man...sorry to hear. Talk about a rough patch.

The prazi will do absolutely nothing to help her with the ick. Only the copper will. If you think she's that far along, and it's the last thing you can really do, dose the copper. It can be used with prazi so you're ok there if thre's any left in the tank water.

Dosing the copper...maybe it'll knock off the parasites and help her - you never know. Not doing much of anything is probably going to have a sad outcome.

I'd vote to run the skimmer tonight - do your water change in the a.m., then dose the copper. Give her a fighting chance.

Wish I could do more to help

 

[Sherri]

Well -- I hooked everything back up -- skimmer, uv -- and even put the filter back on. I also have a whisper running. Getting lots of oxygen in that water. There are a couple of folks on RC who are scorpionfish gurus and they said high nitrates cause their Frondosa to stop eating. So I checked nitrates in the big system and they were zero -- as I thought they would be. Then I thought -- while I am at it -- check the nitrates in the QT. They tested between 10 and 25 (after a 50% water change)-- and the angel looked a bit better. I also saw a couple of the gobies so I am thinking -- perhaps what was happening is that the nitrates shot up. I was planning a water change today anyway -- but it looks like until that stupid company sends me the other filter then I need to do water changes every other day. Her coloring looked a little bit better and she stopped swimming and went somewhere to sleep. So I am going to go to sleep too so I can get up and do another water change in the morning before I go to work. Thanks Lisa and wrassefan ... thanks for the moral support and suggestions.

 

[Sherri]

She is dying. What did I do wrong? Should have done the freshwater dip to see if it was flukes? There were no symptoms of ick other than the rubbing and it was intermittent. Sunday she was having a hard time breathing but still no white dots. Then Tuesday night slowed swimming, Wednesday morning still swimming slow but eating, and then last night terrible color, white dots and unable to breath. This morning she is dying. So at the first sign of scraping I should have treated with copper? Is that what I did wrong? So the tang and gobies are still hiding --- I did another big water change. So I will treat with copper lightly this morning. I wish that stupid filter was here -- but since I won't be here all day -- only a light treatment and I will leave the skimmer and filter running but will trun off the UV???? I really don't know what to do.

 

[Sherri]

SO I guess I killed everyone. Angel is dead, tang is dying too and no sign of the gobies. I followed the directions on the prozipro -- said one teaspoon for every twenty gallons -- it is a 35 g tank and I did one and a half teaspoons on Sunday. Three days later everyone is dead. Ammonia kept reading zero. Nitrates aren't high. What the hell happened?

 

[cakemanPA]

SO I guess I killed everyone. Angel is dead, tang is dying too and no sign of the gobies. I followed the directions on the prozipro -- said one teaspoon for every twenty gallons -- it is a 35 g tank and I did one and a half teaspoons on Sunday. Three days later everyone is dead. Ammonia kept reading zero. Nitrates aren't high. What the hell happened?

Hi Sherri!

Sorry about your losses. I had a similar quite a few years ago. I did find out that I had grossly underestimated how much volume my sand and live rock took up in my tank. I am nit sure what your setup is like. Do you have a bunch of live rock? Do you have a sump?

 

[Sherri]

HI Cakeman - there is one very small rock, a handful of sand, no sump. I really am mystified. I guess I am a QT failure.

 

[Amazon]

I don't know that I'd blame the prazi - you said you ended up ID'ing ick at this point. So I think that if copper was treated instead the outcome may have been different (no crystal ball here). But while treating with prazi the ick continued to weaken the fish.

As far as the dose itself goes - it's hard to say. You could have been on the high side if you didn't account for water discplacement of what you had in there. And I've heard of folks having to repeat treatments sometimes, so maybe they tend to dose low anyway (guessing here).

So at this point you hang the tang that's hanging on, yes? The water should be virtually prazi free and good quality, yes? He definitely has ick. Are you going to add the cupramine?

Sorry about the angel Maybe the gobies will reappear...?

 

[Sherri]

The tang is dead too. Saw one gobie for a second -- not sure of their state. Really, really bummed out. Not sure it was ich. Not sure what happened at all.

 

[stingythingy45]

The tang is dead too. Saw one gobie for a second -- not sure of their state. Really, really bummed out. Not sure it was ich. Not sure what happened at all.

That's too bad,Sherri.
Wonder what happened.

 

[Amazon]

man...so sorry Sherri...

It's definitely one of the down sides of QT'ing more than one fish at a time. Been there, done that. Going through that long process for one fish can seem to take forever. But if you have one sick one in the group that needs the treatment, and has exposed the others, then you really end up pulling your hair out.

On the plus side - thanks goodness you didn't bring any of them home and just toss them in your DT.

Some times getting heathly fish seems impossible. I can't tell you how many fish I've cried over

Hopefully the gobies make it through OK. Have to wait and see. Then I'd wait a little while once their all through QT. Then pick your next one and QT it solo and see how that goes.

Again, I'm really sorry for your losses...

 

[UncleJT]

It's all my fault for not going over to Sherri's two weeks ago to teach her how to FW dip to determine what she was actually dealing with.

 

[stingythingy45]

It's all my fault for not going over to Sherri's two weeks ago to teach her how to FW dip to determine what she was actually dealing with.

No need to take any blame here,JT.
Sometimes fish that get stressed and are sick just perish.

 

[Sherri]

I think it was the prazi ... can't say much -- with clients more later ...

 

[Sherri]

JT -- please don't take this on as in any way your fault. I really had no clue that prozi would kill the fish. I am convinced that is what happened. The tang was fine -- a little bit of rubbing -- but fine. The gobies were fine -- I still have no idea if they are still alive. I never should have added more fish in to your point Lisa. I should have just stuck it out with the tang. He would have been fine. I guess I just totally blew it in so many ways. I should have just done hypo even though so many say that it doesn't work. Killing the fish certainly doesn't work either. I am just so upset -- at least the rhino ate a fish this morning ... one good thing happened. But let's just say that my first attempt at a QT is an utter and complete failure.

 

[stingythingy45]

"But let's just say that my first attempt at a QT is an utter and complete failure."

I would say that it's a complete failure,Sherri.
After all the parasite could be in your display.
Very sorry that you lost your fish like that.