Best way to start over

[Jelandusn]

Hi.
It is with a heavy heart that I have decided to start my tank over. Just a reminder, ever since a pump exploded and caused my tank to crash, I've been dealing with this http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?137074-Tank-crashed-and-now-I-can-t-fix-it.
I have tried everything I could think of, including store bought algae killer to get rid of the algae and nothing worked. It got better, but it was still spending an hour and a half scrubbing the rocks once a week. Not to mention the fact that the aptasia went crazy because I was so focused on the algae and didn't keep them in check.
I just want to start over with a clean, pest free tank. It's pretty much dead anyway. The initial crash killed my cleanup crew and most of my coral. The algae battle took care of the rest.
What should I do to insure this doesn't happen again? Bleach the rocks in the sun? How about the sand? What kind of sand should I get? I used concrete sand or whatever the sand that comes from lowes is called. Supposedly it's safe for tanks? I just want my tank back and really don't want to have to deal with pests again. I miss my tank a bunch. I would spend hours when it was healthy watching it. The past few months I've watched it slowly suffer and decline into the terrible state that it is in now. I never knew how devastations crashes could be.

 

[reefstarter]

I would say keep trying , but then I am not there . I think eventually with phosphate , nitrate removal , water changes up the wazooo decent lights and some patience you could pull through .

 

[ro_nicu]

IF you decide to start over you can just bleach the rock - it will kill everything alive on it. sand can be washed but if you go with regular lowes / hd sand that's just not economical - way cheaper and faster to just get another batch. you could watch the for sale section and grab some "reef sand", it come up for sale from time to time.

if you are worried that the rock is loaded with phosphate I would also give it a vinegar bath. make sure it get's rinsed properly and sun bleached after.

Good Luck!

 

[JohnK]

In the existing tank, is that the old sand from the original tank, or did you replace it? What do you currently have for nutrient removal? What kind of skimmer?

Starting over with dead rock doesn't ensure that the same thing won't happen again. Your existing tank probably has more life than it seems, and you might be better off pushing through with the current fight than starting over.

 

[fishmommy]

truth.
I started with all dry everything and now I have pretty much every kind of algae plus aiptasia! So starting over dry isn't the magic bullet you're hoping for. New tank syndrome is no fun and takes a year or more to get through. If you press on you might be through it faster than that and have some money left in your wallet to boot.

 

[delta]

can you take a step back list you tank parameters, size, equipment, carbon", GFO?, carbon dosing? Husbandry schedule, age of tank. the more info you give the better answer you can end up with.

Also the current state of the tank visually

Sometimes things get missed and if you have been in the tank trying everything under the sun you are going further backwards with the more you keep your hands in the tank. What has happened happened. So lets clear your head a get a good assessment and then you can weigh your options. At the very least it will keep you from making the same mistakes. And like others have said starting from scratch is just that it will not prevent the same things from happening.

While I think starting over is the absolute last measure (recommend against 99.9% of the time) even if you choose to, you need to figure out how you got to where you did before you start over

 

[Jelandusn]

Ok,
Here's a little info about the tank. I can't list parameters, though because I never got test kits. When the algae first popped up, I did get the water tested and my nutrients were not high. I have taken everything out of the tank, shut off the lights and just let it go with the pumps, heater and live rock. The algae is still growing like crazy even though I am not feeding the tank. It's been like this for a month and there's no sign of an end. The tank still gets indirect sunlight so that's probably what's still feeding everything.
I do not have a skimmer. In fact, adding a skimmer is where my problems started. The pump for the skimmer is the one that exploded and started this whole nightmare.
The sand was new. I did not reuse the old sand from the smaller tank. The smaller tank I started with live sand I got from the pet store.
Since I do 20% water changes weekly, I don't dose.
I figured since I have to move the tank anyway, I'd just start over, but if that isn't such a good idea, what else could I do?
Maybe keep the live rock in a tub with no light for a few months and wait for the algae to die from lack of light? I'm all for ideas and since I've given away my coral and livestock because it wasn't fair for them to have to suffer through this I don't have to worry too much about water quality.
Is this really new tank problems? All I did was move everything from a smaller tank to a larger tank. I did get new sand and was expecting diatoms but, ironically, I never had to deal with that. I've been battling this for over 7 months and just want it to end. I can't take this never ending algae war anymore.
The smaller tank had no major problems. It had good coral growth, good Coraline algae growth, maybe a tuft here and there of hair algae but nothing I had to do anything about. I did have aptasia but I would just go around once a month and get the ones I could reach.

 

[JohnK]

So it sounds like you have no nutrient export at all other than the water changes, correct? If so, that's a good part of the problem.

Even if you keep the tank completey in the dark, the nutrients will still be there and the algae will start right back up when the tank is lit again. You will need to get the nutrient levels down, then figure out how to prevent them from accumulating again.

 

[delta]

So it is a green tank basically the system is in flux but still there. Sounds like you didn't run carbon after the pump incident?

it may seem like hell but sometimes these things are their worst right before they die off. I would get some test kits. get all your parameters inline. the fact no nutrients are showing just means the algae is taking it up faster than you can test for. The fact the Algae is there tell you you have excess nutrients.

See ever time you take the LR out and scrub it you set the system off. So start with your water changes. Take a power head and blow off all the LR, then Siphon out any detritus and dead Algae & debris.. Then do your water change. Add a filter sock for the next 24hrs. Also increase in tank flow. See if you can get a cup of sand and some LR rubble from a well established tank to add some bio diversity. Then I would run carbon. make 30% water changes every week for a month, then every 2 weeks. Consider getting a skimmer or replacing the pump on your current skimmer. Just test it before you add it to the tank.

I would also keep blowing the LR every few days as Hair algae has a habit of trapping crude and living off it. Just put a filter sock on your drain for 24 hrs and after you do this and continue to run carbon.

 

[nemodan]

Ok...don't be angry with me guys. I read you all want to save the tank as it is. But let see the facts. There is no fish and no corals. Nothing else than the rocks and the sand. If this is correct, and this where my tank, what I will be doing is: Empty the tank and clean it very well (very well !!!). Discard the sand. Place the rocks in the Sun or bleach it and wash well. Add new sand. Add bleached or dried rocks very well cleaned. Water and a fresh start.

This time buy some kits. Follow the cycle and etc etc.

 

[ro_nicu]

and if the nutrients have been soaked in the rock (which it sounds like) than you will have the same issue 1 week after you restart the tank.


I would say get some macro algae, chatoe, some caulerpa, maybe something even more fancy if you want to put the money into it, increase the flow to avoid dead spots, keep up your water change and turn on the lights full blast for 10-12 hours a day. harvest as much as you can of the nuisance algae (and some of the macro if you have to) for a couple of weeks and it WILL go away, if you don't introduce new nutrients than the current content will be exhausted.

I've had a hair algae issues in my 29G and regardless of what I was doing it would not get better. Finally I took all the fish out, left in just a couple of corals and the crabs, quit feeding anything, turned on the lights for 16 hours a day full blast (100w multichip LED); I was like, screw this, let's how bad it can get. It started going away in 1 week, the algae strands were just peeling off the rock on their own. Added some caulerpa at thap point and another week later there was no sigh of hair algae at all. To be honest I did not even keep up with the water change schedule in those 2-3 weeks that I had no fish in the tank. The only bad thing that came out of this is some of my coral got bleached.

 

[delta]

Ok...don't be angry with me guys. I read you all want to save the tank as it is. But let see the facts. There is no fish and no corals. Nothing else than the rocks and the sand. If this is correct, and this where my tank, what I will be doing is: Empty the tank and clean it very well (very well !!!). Discard the sand. Place the rocks in the Sun or bleach it and wash well. Add new sand. Add bleached or dried rocks very well cleaned. Water and a fresh start.

This time buy some kits. Follow the cycle and etc etc.

no we want him to to save the bacteria so you assessment of the advice is off. Why set yourself back 3-4-5-6months
? When Algae is part of running a reef tank. To break down every time you have an regular tank issue is a huge mistake.

Also to assume his tank wouldn't have looked like this just as part of the cycle is a mistake.

In the end he needs to learn how to face a problem, determine a path to a solution, and follow it through until he is on the other other side. As in time it will be something else again and again. It is an old adage in reefkeeping it is always something

 

[nemodan]

no we want him to to save the bacteria so you assessment of the advice is off. Why set yourself back 3-4-5-6months
? When algae is part of running a reef tank. To break down every time you have an regular tank issue is a huge mistake.

Also to assume his tank wouldn't have looked like this just as part of the cycle is a mistake.

In the end he needs to learn how to face a problem, determine a path to a solution, and follow it through until he is on the other other side. As in time it will be something else again and again. It is an old adage in reefkeeping it is always something

ok !

 

[fishmommy]

best way forward is to get test kits. phosphorus ULR, nitrate, alk, cal.

 

[Jelandusn]

Ok, thanks everyone for the advice. I am not looking for a magic bullet for a sterile tank. As I've stated before, I've been fighting this for 7 months. I tried scrubbing the rocks once a week for six months. On top of that, I got an algae blenny. He really helped, but it was still way too much. I had a cleanup crew and even they couldn't keep up. They wouldn't touch it once it got a certain length. I've also tried keeping the lights on for five hours a day. I did the shorter lights for three weeks and this was after I gave scrubbing the rocks and the clean up crew a month and a half. I then resorted to a reef safe algae killer. This took out one kind of algae but didn't effect the other. I have two different algae I'm fighting. I did the algae killer up until a month ago when I took everything out and put it in a smaller tank. I eventually ended up giving everything away because even a month of doing nothing did not stop the growth. So, it's been a total of seven months scrubbing rocks once a week. Six months with a clean up crew and four months of other things. My goal was not to get rid of it all. As stated before, I did have a little hair algae in my first tank. And aptasia. I'm ok with an occasional pest here and there. I just can't take the overrun tank I've been dealing with. Therefore, against everyone's advance, I've decided to bleach the rock and start over. I do have the live rock that was in the sump so I'll have some bacteria. I just can't imagine dealing with this any longer. I am at my breaking point. I feel bad asking for advice and then going against it, but i just can't even think about fighting this any longer.
P.s.
I know most reefers are guys, but I am not a dude.

 

[nemodan]

Well....you are not going against anyone. The forums are for open discussions and suggestions. At the end is your decision of what to do. But in the meantime you have different ideas. That is how I see things and due to that I always post what I think.

After reading your posting I suggested what you are going to do. It was the most accepted journey after all you described.

Good luck with the new start. All will go OK this time.

 

[fishmommy]

Agreed. No one can blame you - do what you feel is best. Good luck and keep posting


Sent from my gadget using Trippytalk HD

 

[delta]

No worries, your tank, your choice

Just know that what you were doing is resetting your tank once a week and that is why you were fighting it so long. The advice is still all valid in the fact hopefully you will avoid things that brought you to where you are with this tank.


Good luck moving forward

 

[mrclam]

I think its worth emphasizing that you should fix the original issue that caused the algae problems. Bleaching the rock and rinsing the sand will reset the tank, but you will build up nutrients again if you practice the same husbandry.

Things vary from tank to tank, but clearly for you the 20% weekly WC was not enough for nutrient export. The skimmer pump failure may have been the trigger for the problem, but it was not the source. Try getting a quality skimmer with a good pump, or running a large refuge with macro algae or even an algae turf scrubber. If you dont employ some method of nutrient export you will likely end up with the same algae issues in a year.

 

[ReeferSutherland]

Hello Jelandusn, here's what I would do: First off, buy a test kit. You need to know your water parameters in order to figure out why you are having issues with algae. I don't have the huge reef test kit that costs over 100 bucks, I just got the essentials: Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, pH, and if you are doing hard corals Calcium and hardness. You should use an overflow and sump for filtration. Put some chaeto in the sump and that will soak up excess nutrients. Also, you definitely need a protein skimmer in with your sump. It doesn't have to be a super expensive one, however, I started with a 30 dollar one that I ordered online. I have not had an algae outbreak since I incorporated my sump, so this should solve your problems. For the rocks, don't nuke them. Just put them in some tank water outside the tank when you are doing your water changes, and scrub them with a toothbrush, then discard the nasty water. If you do this a few times, and incorporate the sump, you will be good to go! As for the sand, I probably would have got some new sand because the used sand has quite a bit of nasty stuff in it, especially if you have a deep sand bed. One more thing: The blennies and CUC, imo, are to keep the tank under control in case you over feed it once in a while. They are not to get it under control; if you are using them for this then it is already too late, and they will probably die from the poor water quality. Good luck with the tank, and remember these are just my opinions haha! The best way to learn reefing, I have found, is to learn it as you go SLOWLY! Big moves and hasty decisions usually end up not going so well. Thanks for listening and again, Best of luck to you! Don't give up!