Can anyone out there with a basement sump help me?

[ryguy]

So I am setting up my first saltwater tank and I decided to go with a basement sump. My tank has pretty much cycled now and I am still trying to solve my plumbing woes. I have messed around with the plumbing on my drain line for over a month now and I still have crazy bubbles and splashing in my sump, im assuming because of the ~10 foot drop from my DT to my basement. I just tried a reverse durso and im still getting bubbles like crazy. The only way it settles down is if i close the drain line half way with a ball valve. I know this is bad. My 1" drain line is reduced to .5" and if a snail got down there my living room is flooded.

This is my current setup.

http://imgur.com/edit?deletehash=wZEICZDRKpiv6oy

Specs
- 700gph overflow from gl**************s.com on a 42g DT
- 1.5" reduced to 1" to get through a wall
- mag 12 probably running at about 500gph with the head loss
- drain running 10' down with 4 45's to 20g sump
- reverse durso in sump at water line.

One thought i had was that a 500gph return pump was too little for the 700gph overflow box and when they are both fully open everything gets noisy and splashy because there is not enough flow coming from the return. I could get it dead silent with no bubbles when i dialed them both back about 50% before i put the durso on, but I know this is bad.


I am at a loss at this point. Glass holes said it needs to be 1.5" all the way down but i really dont think that will help with the crashing water coming down 10'. I am looking for ideas so I can open my drain line all the way and not worry about flooding. If i do this now its like a hot tub down there with water splashing everywhere.

I will be forever in debt to anyone who can help me solve this problem. I just want to be able to put some fish in there for my son who loves nemo, the reason i started this whole crazy adventure!

 

[choff]

I have a basement sump with 1.5 in drain lines and I get tons of bubbles. The only way you are not going to get bubbles is if the drain is under full siphon like you would get from a bean animal overflow.

Can I ask why you care about bubbles in your sump?

 

[ryguy]

They arent tiny bubbles, they spill out over the side of my tank, and its crazy loud. When I dial back the drain with a ball valve its livable, but thats asking for a pool in my living room once i put my fish and cuc in there.

 

[reefstarter]

where are you located ? I can take a look if you are close

 

[ryguy]

where are you located ? I can take a look if you are close

I'm in Ashland

 

[reefstarter]

Hmm maybe some pictures ? lol woosta area a bit a ways away . But with some pics I might be able to help

 

[s_kelley]

Are you using a filter sock to empty into? They also make a plastic mesh that I use when washing the socks

 

[MrX]

Edit To Add -- Didn't see your pic. Do you really already have 45-degree angles in the piping, or is it just a 90 and straight down?

Instead of having a straight drop of 10' +/- why not add a couple 45s into the mix and 'slow' the water down a bit.

Something like:



Something like that would slow the water down enough to let some air back up/out of the piping and should reduce the problems in the sump. You'll then want to use a reverse durso to remove the rest of the bubbles.

I had to do something similar with my original basement sump setup.

 

[s_kelley]

I can't see the pic you posted, that would help greatly

 

[reefstarter]

Ok just saw the pic "drawing " you had up there and I think I got a solution for you . hope this makes sense . before the reverse dorso put in a tee so that the run sits horizontally . then install 2 reverse dorsos on that tee . I did something similar with my 90 set up that seemed to help a lot . Also what kind of set up is on the DT ? I am not familiar with the glass holes drain location lay out at all . And I need to see this before my suggestion bears any weight

 

[ryguy]

I would post more pics, but the file size limit of 97kb rules out any picture taken by a modern cell phone. When I get home I will upload some more.

I actually had to stuff some filter sponges in the box to quiet it down. I honestly think that it is draining too fast for the pump and creating all the problems.

As it stands I already have 4 45s on the run to the basement, maybe I will make the lateral runs longer.

 

[reefstarter]

what will work is kind of like what MR X suggested but instead of one 45 after the other , use a why for one of the 45's and add a chamber about 8 inches long off the other end of the wye , this is called a so-vent system . we use it in high rises in boston . what it does is break up the water stream and add air to it . allowing better flow now all the siphon drain people are gonna chime in here and tell me this won't work . I am a Master plumber of 25 years , Im pretty sure I know how to make water flow and quietly

 

[Pat02026]

Use photobucket to host your images. It's simple and it doesn't matter what size the file is. Upload the picture, copy and paste the IMG URL here in your post and your picture will appear in your post full size. Then we can get an idea as to which direction to go with helping you out.

 

[Pat02026]

Reef starter, just to clarify you would be using the wye with the leg pointing upward? Also is this leg capped and sealed, or are you allowing air to enter at that point also?

 

[ryguy]

Ok I uploaded some pics. The grey fitting below the 90 was a check valve that i have since removed. All I have is the 90 from the overflow box, a union, and a reducer from 1.5" to 1".

Reefstarter, do you have a diagram or a pic of the so-vent? Im willing to try anything. While I have a master plumber on the line, do you thing the 1.5"-1" reducer could be the problem? In reading a bunch about basement sumps, I found that smaller pipes = more velocity, which means more bubbles and crashing water. I really dont want to have to drain my tank to move it off of the wall to replumb everythign from the overflow box to 1.5" the whole way. I originally used the reducer because I didnt want to drill a 1 3/4" hole in the plate of a supporting wall.

http://imgur.com/a/48JRH

 

[reefstarter]

Capped and sealed

 

[ryguy]

Was there supposed to be a pic attached?

 

[letoan]

Did you tried to reduce the return volume?

In general problem with these gl**************s is flow volume and the position of the air tube.

 

[delta]

I have a basement sump with 1.5 in drain lines and I get tons of bubbles. The only way you are not going to get bubbles is if the drain is under full siphon like you would get from a bean animal overflow.

Can I ask why you care about bubbles in your sump?

Not true if it is designed right I have that exact setup and have no issues with bubble with a durso reverse durso setup. Not that the bean/siphon won't work depending on the exact path of the piping it may be more problematic than traditional gravity flow

But to be honest a few picture would go a long way for giving advice

Edit I see the limked images now

 

[ryguy]

Did you tried to reduce the return volume?

In general problem with these gl**************s is flow volume and the position of the air tube.

Yeah I've messed with the return BV with little success. I actually messed with it today for a few hours and got it to an acceptable level. I drilled holes in the drain below the tee in the water and it improved it a lot.

I guess I'll keep tinkering until I get it right. Crazy how temperamental these things can be.