Electricuted?

[petesreef]

This is a DIY gone bad. Chalk it up to rookie lessons learned but am still looking for a few answers which some of the focum might want to provide.

I had hung a flourescent lamp in my tank stand over the uncovered sump as part of a plan to grow additional macro. This was the type of fixture where the power supply is plugged into the lamp itself almost like how you would recharge a camera battery.

Last saturday this power supply came out of the socket and this live wire fell into the sump water. I have no idea how long it was in there but it could have been as long as 8 hours. The fish were apparetnly unaffected but a number of the coral were fried. I have a before and after pictures of the zenia to show this below. The zenia clearly took the brunt of the accident. Everything else shrunk but quickly rebounded by the next day. It is now a week later and things are beginning to rebound for the zenia. I am assuming that the zenia got electricuted, but I wasn't sure what elements from the live wire might have entered the water which could have caused this too so I have been running carbon since the accident.

The other thing which was interesting, was that I normally have a little cyano on the substrate. The cyano has been gone ever since I am not sure if this has anything to do with the accident or if it is the result of running the carbon.

I am interested in comments about what might have happened here. If nothing else comes from this, maybe we just figured out a way to control zenia and cyano.

Pete

 

[petesreef]

zenia after accident

 

[Matt L.]

From what I have read, usually the fish show the signs of the electrocution, why the corals do not. The fact that you're more sensitive invertebrates seem to show the effects rather than your vertebrates leads me to believe that something else has gone wrong; something that would impact the invertebrates more than vertegrates. Was that wire a copper wire? If so, it could very well have introduced copper into your system.

Matt

 

[petesreef]

I assume that there is copper in this wire.

 

[~Flighty~]

Does it really disolve that fast from a piece of wire to a large enough concentration to hurt inverts? Does the current have something to do with htat?

 

[Skinpuppi]

Did you get shocked from it? I hope you are alright if you did. This sounds like a poll. How many people have been electrically shocked by their tanks.

 

[petesreef]

I had touched the water before finding the wire but did not get shocked, thanks for asking. The other thought I had was that because the wire was live and when I pulled it out it was hissing, I suspected that some of the plastic insulation around the wire might have burned into the water. Who knows what might be in that which could cause something.

 

[Conlius]

if the wire was live....and if you picked it up out of the water and touched the water and you did not get electricuted....you most likely shorted the breaker (which i think you would have noticed )...or fried the wire...i think it would be the ladder of the two.

but its good that you and your fish are ok. you say that most of the corals are fine?

don't worry, your zenia will be annoying you again soon if there was anything left of it after it got "fried" or whatever happened

 

[Greg Hiller]

I do believe that the current going through the water can speed up the dissolution of copper into the water. I'd do some water changes and plenty of carbon.

 

[NateHanson]

Does it really disolve that fast from a piece of wire to a large enough concentration to hurt inverts? Does the current have something to do with htat?

Yes, definitely. Electrolytic corrosion can be relatively fast. I wouldn't think this event would trip the breaker if the voltage is low, because the seawater would have a resistance, and might not conduct enough current to trip the breaker.

 

[Conlius]

yeah thats what i meant, if it had tripped the breaker, you would have definitely noticed all the lights go out in that room or one section of your house.

...good old v=iR (im an EE major so i think these kind of weird occurances are kinda interesting...but i am not saying that i am getting pleasure out of your pain)

 

[Moe_K]

One thing I find interesting is the happy loss of the cyano since the event.
I wonder about the copper, but think maybe there's something else at play.
Maybe melted insulation got into the water from the wire?

 

[~Flighty~]

I guess what I'm getting at is how much copper would need to be disolved to reach the toxic level.

I just want to know in general terms, like to reach the toxic level in 100g of seawater, you would need to disolve how much copper wire? is it like an ounce, a pound, bairly enough to see??

 

[Deafasa]

Hmm, I am wondering about the powersupply. My guess is it is outputting somewhere between 5 and 24 volts dc at maybe .5 to 1.5 amps. I'm doubting the problem was the electricity. The fact that it was hissing when you pulled it out means it was live. If you didn't feel a shock or tingle then I would assume it was a very small amount. Is the outlet this was plugged into a Ground Fault outlet? All in all I would say your very lucky you didn't get zapped or have a fire.

Jeff

 

[petesreef]

The light fixture plug itself was into one of those strip outlets which can accomodate up to six plugs. I had bought these as heavy duties so they come with the built in breaker which did not trigger.

Thinking through some of this more educated feedback, it sounds like it was not a copper problem because the vertebrates were not affected which would be atypical. Given I didn't receive a considerable jolt when I touched the water when the wire was live seems to indicate the electricity may not have been considerable enough to zap the zenias yet not harm the fish.

So, is it fair to believe that the melting of the insulation around the copper wire was toxic enough at low levels to affect the inverts and easily managed by introduction of carbon?

Is all of this in line with the above comments?

All of this seems to address or at least touch on the Zenia issue, but I am still curious about the cyano, to this day it is gone and I regularly had at least traces on the substrate in the front of the case. Is there a relationship between running carbon and the presence of cyano?

 

[sw300galma]

I would recommend to ANYONE running a tank to make sure that every plug used and around the tank is GCFI.

I learned the hard way.

I spilled water on a high quality $60 surge protector....and it hissed and fizzled and started sparking, then small flames....All along i'm thinking it should shut off...it didn't...I reached down and grabbed the plug (bad move) and got zapped pretty bad.

From that point on...everything and anything that is near my tanks is GCFI'ed

It costs a good deal of money...but my life is worth it....

I've spilled water on plugs since and as soon as the drop hits, the curcuit shuts off...

Cost of the GCFI outlet $30
Cost of the GCFI Breaker $30
Cost of a GCFI Powerstrip $40
Cost of your severe nerve damage and/or your life Priceless

 

[NateHanson]

The light fixture plug itself was into one of those strip outlets which can accomodate up to six plugs. I had bought these as heavy duties so they come with the built in breaker which did not trigger.

Careful there, I don't think most power strips have any sort of breaker on them, unless you mean it's a special GFCI strip. Most powerstrips just have a simple toggle switch - sometimes with surge protection but that won't help you with any problems downstream of the strip.

Thinking through some of this more educated feedback, it sounds like it was not a copper problem because the vertebrates were not affected which would be atypical.

I think you've got this backwards. Copper would kill/hurt corals, crabs, and other invertebrates, while low or even moderate levels would not harm the fish.

I think enough copper dissolved to harm some of the corals. I'd run polyfilter or some other general sorbent to make sure the copper is removed.

 

[Deafasa]

You can get powerstrips with push to reset breakers. They are not GFCI outlets or ground fault circuit interupt circuit breakers. Replace the outlet the powerstrip plugs into with a ground fault outlet.
I haven't been very active here in a while, but I remember there was a problem with the gfci extension cords. I think it was if the power went out the gfci would trip. So if there was a power outage, everything would be off until you manually reset it. I would stick with the gfci outlet or gfci circuit breaker.

 

[petesreef]

Careful there, I don't think most power strips have any sort of breaker on them, unless you mean it's a special GFCI strip. Most powerstrips just have a simple toggle switch - sometimes with surge protection but that won't help you with any problems downstream of the strip.


I think you've got this backwards. Copper would kill/hurt corals, crabs, and other invertebrates, while low or even moderate levels would not harm the fish.

I think enough copper dissolved to harm some of the corals. I'd run polyfilter or some other general sorbent to make sure the copper is removed.

Thanks for the clarification Nate. All seems well at this point now 10 days down the line having run carbon the entire time.

 

[TBoisvert]

You can get powerstrips with push to reset breakers. They are not GFCI outlets or ground fault circuit interupt circuit breakers. Replace the outlet the powerstrip plugs into with a ground fault outlet.
I haven't been very active here in a while, but I remember there was a problem with the gfci extension cords. I think it was if the power went out the gfci would trip. So if there was a power outage, everything would be off until you manually reset it. I would stick with the gfci outlet or gfci circuit breaker.

A gfci breaker added to a gfci outlet would be redundant. Both together is a waste of money. I had my brother in law come over and install 2 -20 amp breakers that are dedicated to the reef aquarium. They are both gfci breakers and I agree that they are necessary. But to put in both on the same circuit is just a waste of money.

Tam