How many barebottom reefers do we have?

[One Eye]

I'm not talking about reefkeepers with their butts hanging out...and I don't want to hear about you guys with your butts hanging out...lady's my pm box has been emptied if you care to share a story or two.

I've just been doing alot of reading about barebottom tanks and the use of phosban or other phosphate removers-binders. I'd like to see if people in the club are trying this method. And what the results have been.

 

[JeremyR]

Been there done that, back in the 90's before DSB's. It works fine. I just like sand on the bottom better, I think a bare bottom is ugly. The old "berlin" style was barebottom, and results were good.

 

[delta]

i had a bare bottom tank using the berlin method awhile back and found no better results than SSB in parameters, growth livestock(no sps). i just found that you loose a valuable buffer zone perhaps its due to the life in the sand bed. also you loose everything that lives in the sand bed. i found it unsightly and was constantly siphoning detritus so i went back to sand and will stay SSB. i would rather leave the work to the sand bed than take it on myself.
HTH

 

[One Eye]

Thanks Jeremy. I'm starting to notice a pattern. People are taking their sandbeds out and running phosban. Almost all of them have said that soon after they start loseing sps. STN from the base up. I was trying to see if people here have had the same problem...I'm keeping my sand btw.

 

[jango]

People are taking their sandbeds out and running phosban. Almost all of them have said that soon after they start loseing sps.

Where did you see this I have been looking into BB for a while now and haven't heard that at all. I haven't heard of too many people that switch even having to run phosban or having a phosphate problem at all. That usually why they got rid of there DSB...

 

[jackie]

I know Bill (Syris) keeps a barebottom, he has pics in the photography forum. He hasn't seen any adverse affects from it, to look at his gorgeous tank it seems to be thriving. I wouldn't personally go without one. I like the aesthetics and extra life in the SB.

 

[Piscevore]

I am a recently reformed nudist. I think the biggest thing is to keep detritus from settling.

 

[One Eye]

Jango, many of the people on RCs SPS forum have been saying that they're looseing corals from STN shortly after making the switch. And if you do a search you'll find most continue to use phoban and skim heavily.

 

[gogoderek]

a couple people around me have bb without any problem. i think it looks like they have plastic sand

 

[One Eye]

I am a recently reformed nudist. I think the biggest thing is to keep detritus from settling.

What I've been reading says that most still get pockets of detrious that need to be siphoned out regularly along with frequent water changes....which would also be a good idea with sand beds.

Are you getting the pockets?

 

[jango]

If you remove the part of your tank that is leaching phosphates and kept running phosban or started using it I would think you would start losing corals. Just like all the other people in the past that have overdosed (using the required amount) using Rowa or Phosban.

 

[Lam]

There is so much debate over BB v DSB over at RC that I've almost given up keeping track. Has it been more than a year now? Some of the "discussions" gets pretty heated. I think Jango even wrote a post or so over there.

Personally I think either method is fine as long as you know the pros and cons of each and properly maintain your tank based on the method you choose. I've read threads regarding sps failure from both methods. To me, my SSB works and is aesthetically pleasing. Armando has switched to BB with starboard. Maybe he'll chime in.

 

[nitrofish]

id only do bare botton in a frag tank.

 

[One Eye]

The reading I'm doing also suggests that most of us (myself included) are using our DSBs improperly and that's where we are leaching phosphates.

 

[Liam]

The reading I'm doing also suggests that most of us (myself included) are using our DSBs improperly and that's where we are leaching phosphates.

in what ways?

 

[jango]

I just did a search on RC for STN for the past month and I didn't see one BB tank every one had a sand bed.

I think Jango even wrote a post or so over there.

I spent the last year planning my system and reading BB threads. If I was still going to set up the tank I would go BB. Actually it is set up BB right now but not for long anyone need a drilled 75..
IMO If you do it right I think it is the best way to keep an sps tank...

 

[jango]

Its not that you are using DSB's improperly they just fill up and leach phosphates. As soon as a DSB fills up you will have issue's, but a well maintained tank a DSB should last for years...

In most cases people are blaming there DSB for there lack of maintenance.

 

[Syris]

I agree with Jeremy that you can run a reef tank with or without sand bed and can do well with it.
In my personal experience I see my SPS tank running better now without a sand bed but I have seen some very nice SPS tanks with DSB. I just think its more based on your husbandry and attention to the tank that ultimatlely make the difference. For me a BB is easier to maintain plus I get a sick satisfaction of syphoning the detrious out of the sump/and main tank during a water change

Also my experience with SPS is they tend to like a more faster moving cleaner water. While softies/LPS tend to like a slower slightly more nutrient rich water. And in my 45g softy/LPS tank I do run a ~4"DSB and seem to be doing well with it but its still a young reef at just over a year.

ooh to get back to you Darren, I just stopped running my Phosban 150 reactor about a month ago because I didnt feel I needed it any more. I had no STN/RTN issue before or after its use during having a DSB or after going BB.

 

[One Eye]

As far as the improper use of the sand bed. Many sand beds are not deep enough to actualy work in nitrate removal. The sand needs to be deep enough to provide an oxygen free layer. Most don't have enough flow. There should be enough flow to push water through the sand bed to bring oxygen and nitrate into the different levels of sand. There should also be several sand burrowing organisms to constantly stir the sand so that it doesn't compact and stop water flow through it. If set up and maintained, which would really only mean keeping an eye on the critters so hard spots don't occur then the sand bed should last forever. And of course detrious eating animals.

But basicly I think that it just comes down to water changes. All the people who are loudly pushing barebottom also say frequent water changes and I think people with DSBs are expecting the DSB to remove the need for water changes. All the speakers I saw in NY last weekend said the biggest mistake made was not enough water changes. Calfo.."the solution to pollution is dilution"

 

[Armando]

Armando has switched to BB with starboard. Maybe he'll chime in.

One important thing to mention is that I actually didn't switch, I already started my new tank already without sand. I did remove some of the sands of my older tanks but it was a slow process over a few months, I left 1-2" of sand bed.

The reason I didn't want to use sand in this new tank is mostly because I really can't stand the sand flying and landing on top of corals. And I wanted a lot of flow in the tank. As far as success or not, it's early to tell. So far so good.