How many of you have went back to halides or t5s

[Bobbofin]

I really like the fact that with the controller I can have a nice light cycle other than just on and off. Plus I didn't even notice a difference in my bill. Ok I won't high jack your thread anymore.

The controller on my 6x24" ATI Sunpower Dimmable is simple and great. Each channel ramps up from 0-100% (after a 50 hour after break in period for the bulbs at 100%) just like Radion or AI LEDs, 10 set points per day for each channel of lights. Bulb 2 & 5 are on channel 1 which I have my actinincs and channel 2 has bulbs 1, 3, 4 & 6 which I have 2 blue+. coral+ and aquablue special. I miss the shimmer effect of LEDs or MH but the coloring of my colors is AWESOME! Who really cares about cloud cover or thunder storms, they're just gimmicks. I hitched my other EcoTech product too. I was sick of Astrea snails climbing into my MP40 and busting the shaft once or twice a year, constant whine noise no matter how much you adjust it. I went with the new Tunze 6095 wide flow powerhead, the new 7092 two pump wave controller and a 7094.05 night sensor. Very comparable to a MP40 as far as wide flow and performance.

 

[SteveDola]

still the best IMO

check out this months TOMT running 400w XM and VHO/LED sups
EPIC

 

[acrofragger]

very nice ,prooven over and over again hallides and vhos

 

[HuuTa]

check this one running t5 and led http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/ree...421-reef-spotlight-december-2012-nuocmam.html

 

[yukyuklee]

check this one out http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2204097

 

[coder35]

great debate thread.

 

[SteveDola]

if the chinese in china are not using only LED then i dont know much more needs being said.


from the pictures Ive seen...its like amatures verses pros.

 

[this is me]

If you haven't read.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/aafeature

Until I see a LED fixture that have all the different peaks at different length like MH, I'll stay with MH and deal with the heat(2 months in a year).

 

[LoveTheReef]

If you haven't read.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/aafeature

Until I see a LED fixture that have all the different peaks at different length like MH, I'll stay with MH and deal with the heat(2 months in a year).

... but why? I mean, I understand that there's a difference between the spectrum from MH and LEDs, but why do you need the spectrum to be 100% same? I'm not asking you to switch to LEDs, I'm not making claims on whether LED is better or T5 is better or MH is better. I'm only asking -- if led can grow and color as well or better as MH, regardless of the 'spikes' in spectrums, why does it matter?

Yes, people have different experience with LEDs; some being very successful, some being partly successful, some not being successful at all -- but if some people are having success, and others aren't, could there be some other factors affecting the overall outcome? (this is by no means me saying that people that haven't had good luck with LEDs lack in their husbandry skills -- just throwing out food for thought, that's all)

To avoid the flames, I'll re-iterate -- I am not saying, by any means, that people that haven't had success with LEDs are doing anything wrong. I'm simply throwing the question out there for opinions (not flames -- opinions).

 

[P-Nut]

This thread is beating a dead horse now.

It is simple: LED are not quite there yet. however, some corals (a lot) will do well under LED. it all depends on what you want. if you are keeping zoa and leather, and some easy LPS like candy canes, then you can go LED. if you wnat to go hardcore SPS then go halide or T5.

A good LED ficture = $600 ---- 150W
A good T5 = $100 fixture, plus 4 x$20 ATI bulbs. So $180 for a nice 4 bulb T5 that will grow clams, or $220 for a nice 6 bulb T5. ---- 150W (for the 4 bulb and 36")
MH = You can find ballasts for around $100, plus the bulb, if you look hard enough you can have a nice MH for $200 - $250 ----150W

a Killowatt of electricity in my town 9I will use that as an example) costs 0.17.

the math:

0.17/ 1000W = 0.00017 cents per watt.
150W x12 hours = 1,800W
1800 x 7 (days in a week) = 12,600
12,600 x 52 (weeks in a year) = 655,200
655,200 x 0.00017 = $111

So, running MH and T5 costs $111 in electricity.
To that add 4 bulbs for T5 (can replace it every year and a half, the one year thing is pure marketing BS, but we will use one year). 4 x 20 = 80. So a T5 will cost you around $191 ( Iam comparing the 4 bulb T5 because it is almost 150W -it actually is a little less)
MH will cost $111 + 75 = $186

Now, lets say you run the 150W LED at 75%. 75% of 150 = 112.5

112.5 x 12 x 7 x 52 = 491,400 x 0.00017 = $83.538

initial cost of t5 was around 180
MH around 250
and LED around 600

You would ahve to run the T5 for 2 years (includes initial cost) to come close to the initial cost of the LED, to that cost you need to add the 2 year of electricity bill for the LED, which come to around $170. So you will need to run the T5 for 3 years to even out with the LED.

The MH had an initial cost of $250, a ltitle higher, so it will take a little less. But a $50 -$60 difference is really nothing.

So, for a small set up, it is simply not worth it to risk it. Unless you want the cool and flashy, and quite useless, effects that an LED can give you.

For a big tank the costs will depend on how many LED you need to buy and what wattage T5 or MH you want. I think that one 150W TH is good for a 40 breeder, so 2 150W TMH should be good for a 6 foot tank, thats 18"wide and 16" deep.

 

[me2003]

The response to the article and other issues with LED spectrum was to add UV LED. No LED system with UV lights was in the review.
The only spectrum you should try to imitate is this. MH don't do this well.

 

[this is me]

... but why? I mean, I understand that there's a difference between the spectrum from MH and LEDs, but why do you need the spectrum to be 100% same? I'm not asking you to switch to LEDs, I'm not making claims on whether LED is better or T5 is better or MH is better. I'm only asking -- if led can grow and color as well or better as MH, regardless of the 'spikes' in spectrums, why does it matter?

Yes, people have different experience with LEDs; some being very successful, some being partly successful, some not being successful at all -- but if some people are having success, and others aren't, could there be some other factors affecting the overall outcome? (this is by no means me saying that people that haven't had good luck with LEDs lack in their husbandry skills -- just throwing out food for thought, that's all)

To avoid the flames, I'll re-iterate -- I am not saying, by any means, that people that haven't had success with LEDs are doing anything wrong. I'm simply throwing the question out there for opinions (not flames -- opinions).

Why not? It has been working for years.

 

[me2003]

"Now, lets say you run the 150W LED at 75%. 75% of 150 = 112.5

112.5 x 12 x 7 x 52 = 491,400 x 0.00017 = $83.538

initial cost of t5 was around 180
MH around 250
and LED around 600 "

These numbers are carefully selected to make LED look bad.
ex 1. None of the comparison referenced use a 150 mh bulb.
2. You can get an LED system for 300-400 not 600
3. "4 x$20 ATI bulbs" most systems use 6 ATI bulbs and they don't last 1.5 or 1 year.

....

 

[this is me]

This thread is beating a dead horse now.

It is simple: LED are not quite there yet. however, some corals (a lot) will do well under LED. it all depends on what you want. if you are keeping zoa and leather, and some easy LPS like candy canes, then you can go LED. if you wnat to go hardcore SPS then go halide or T5.

A good LED ficture = $600 ---- 150W
A good T5 = $100 fixture, plus 4 x$20 ATI bulbs. So $180 for a nice 4 bulb T5 that will grow clams, or $220 for a nice 6 bulb T5. ---- 150W (for the 4 bulb and 36")
MH = You can find ballasts for around $100, plus the bulb, if you look hard enough you can have a nice MH for $200 - $250 ----150W

a Killowatt of electricity in my town 9I will use that as an example) costs 0.17.

the math:

0.17/ 1000W = 0.00017 cents per watt.
150W x12 hours = 1,800W
1800 x 7 (days in a week) = 12,600
12,600 x 52 (weeks in a year) = 655,200
655,200 x 0.00017 = $111

So, running MH and T5 costs $111 in electricity.
To that add 4 bulbs for T5 (can replace it every year and a half, the one year thing is pure marketing BS, but we will use one year). 4 x 20 = 80. So a T5 will cost you around $191 ( Iam comparing the 4 bulb T5 because it is almost 150W -it actually is a little less)
MH will cost $111 + 75 = $186

Now, lets say you run the 150W LED at 75%. 75% of 150 = 112.5

112.5 x 12 x 7 x 52 = 491,400 x 0.00017 = $83.538

initial cost of t5 was around 180
MH around 250
and LED around 600

You would ahve to run the T5 for 2 years (includes initial cost) to come close to the initial cost of the LED, to that cost you need to add the 2 year of electricity bill for the LED, which come to around $170. So you will need to run the T5 for 3 years to even out with the LED.

The MH had an initial cost of $250, a ltitle higher, so it will take a little less. But a $50 -$60 difference is really nothing.

So, for a small set up, it is simply not worth it to risk it. Unless you want the cool and flashy, and quite useless, effects that an LED can give you.

For a big tank the costs will depend on how many LED you need to buy and what wattage T5 or MH you want. I think that one 150W TH is good for a 40 breeder, so 2 150W T5 should be good for a 6 foot tank, thats 18"wide and 16" deep.

The math is generic and wouldn't be apply to everyone. If you have a sump in the basement and live in cold climate area, you'll spend more money on heat.
MH bulb doesn't burn out in 12months either but the spectrum and intensity changed. There's no solid evident that LED don't change their spectrum. Imagine having to change out your whole LED board on the fixture.

 

[P-Nut]

The math is generic and wouldn't be apply to everyone. If you have a sump in the basement and live in cold climate area, you'll spend more money on heat.
MH bulb doesn't burn out in 12months either but the spectrum and intensity changed. There's no solid evident that LED don't change their spectrum. Imagine having to change out your whole LED board on the fixture.

The sump doesnt mean anything. We are talking about costs of light on the display tank. I was only talking about light for the MAIN tank consumption. The sump could be outside with a 5K watts worth of heaters for all I care.

The math is not generic, the numbers just change with wattage. I did it for a 40 breeder size tank because it applies to many people. The numbers show that for a tank that size, it doesn make sense to risk it with LED. Even if we add $100 to the cost of T5 and MH, it still isnt worth it to use LED (and risk not liking them) to save $100 over 3 years.

About the LED spectrum, you are right. Which is another cost to have into considereation, which is uncertainty.

 

[this is me]

The sump doesnt mean anything. We are talking about costs of light on the display tank. I was only talking about light for the MAIN tank consumption. The sump could be outside with a 5K watts worth of heaters for all I care.

The math is not generic, the numbers just change with wattage. I did it for a 40 breeder size tank because it applies to many people. the nu7mbers show that for a tank that size, it doesn make sense to risk it with LED.

About the LED spectrum, you are right. Which is another cost to have into considereation, which is uncertainty.

Are you saying your sump is not connecting to the system? :?? People buy LED because of the heat of the MH mainly. They want to save energy on running chillers and that LED draw less power on the grid. But the fact is, your sump is still connected to the system and depend on where you live, you need to heat your system! I rather pay the electricity to light my tank rather than heating up my tank. I've seen people(Paul/reefkeeper) insulate their sump in the basement to keep it warm.

 

[P-Nut]

"Now, lets say you run the 150W LED at 75%. 75% of 150 = 112.5

112.5 x 12 x 7 x 52 = 491,400 x 0.00017 = $83.538

initial cost of t5 was around 180
MH around 250
and LED around 600 "

These numbers are carefully selected to make LED look bad.
ex 1. None of the comparison referenced use a 150 mh bulb.
2. You can get an LED system for 300-400 not 600
3. "4 x$20 ATI bulbs" most systems use 6 ATI bulbs and they don't last 1.5 or 1 year.

....

No, the numbers were selected because you can run a 40 beeder with a 150W halide or a 4 bulb T5. I run a 4 bulb T5 on an $80 fixture and my clam are growing too fast.
Read the entire thing, and you will see that I mention this is for a small tank set up wich is what a lot of people ahve and what I have. i dont ahve a 150 gallon tank, so i cant speak for that size.

LED are just not worth it for a 40 breeder or smaller tank.

Too much risk to save almsot nothing in 3 years.

 

[Jarob]

I have LED's and don't get me wrong, I love them, but if I were to start over with my tank I would get one of those dimmable ATI t5 fixtures and supplement it with some LED's to get the shimmer too.

 

[P-Nut]

Are you saying your sump is not connecting to the system? :?? People buy LED because of the heat of the MH mainly. They want to save energy on running chillers and that LED draw less power on the grid. But the fact is, your sump is still connected to the system! I rather pay the electricity to light my tank rather than heating up my tank. I've seen people(Paul/reefkeeper) insulate their sump in the basement to keep it warm.

I am talking about the cost of running a light. Not the cost of using a light to heat up a tank. I think that is a waste of money.

I am comparing the costs of LIGHTING a tank. NOT HEATING a tank. this thread is not about heating tanks, its about LED vs T5 vs MH and why peopl went back to one or the other.

I dont use my lights as a heat source. I have heaters for that.

 

[this is me]

You have to look at the whole picture. Period.