Lighting Recap at Meeting

[delta]

I will still continue to paint the back of every tank I ever set up. I have been keeping corals in these tanks for over 10 years, and they have all done excellent. I really can't see that being any significant difference. do we really need that little amount that might be lost??? I think a black painted background looks the best, therefore that is what I will do and recommend. Are we really getting that geeky that we are going to remove backgrounds from our tanks for a small amount of PAR from reflection... I mean seriously, I think we just need to take a deep breath and relax...lol


99% of this hobby is about personal preference. It all works, just go with what you like (lighting, rockwork, sandbed, flow, backgrounds, supplements, testing, etc) As long as we understand the basic principals and fundamentals of the Ocean, research and understand the requirements of the animals we plan to keep, and provide the best environment possible. We will be successful.

Well that was one part of the presentation and he went in details to show what effects that would have. First off if you have rock on the back wall it makes little to no difference. He also listed the par ratings he got along the painted wall and the list of corals that can live under those par ratings. The difference was not a small amount at all it was approximately 50%

He only mentioned these items to explain the reason for the pattern of par readings he got. But it is hard to see from a few post the actual point that was made. His actual point was that you need alot less light than you might think to have a nice reef tank and that T-5s would be sufficient for most corals. He brought the par rating from the output of T-5 lighting in different reflectors and par ratings different corals can grow under together in one presentation.

 

[JohnK]

If it's hanging or otherwise not directly touching the glass %100, you don't need to think twice. If air touches the glass, then the reflection thing still works.

 

[cujo6984]

i did not go to the meeting buy reading all these posts what happens if you have the back glass 100% covered in Coraline algae ???

 

[JohnK]

My understanding to would be that if the inner glass is covered, then you would loose the reflection from both the glass/air interface, AND the water/glass interface.

Assuming that's correct, the loss in reflection would be greater.

 

[SharkLover]

i did not go to the meeting buy reading all these posts what happens if you have the back glass 100% covered in Coraline algae ???

He went over that, and the same effects occur ie... lack of light reflection, with the color black being the worst.

 

[delta]

Few things he noted to explain the par rating

Fans in a lighting fixture effect the out put of the lights. For T-5s if the light are not running at 95degrees the output was reduced. This showed in the par reading as one end of the tank had higher reading than the other.

He also listed the optimal running temp for VHo's 70 degrees and halides at 120 degrees.
When VHO or T-5s are run in the same fixture as halides the output is reduced in the ball park of 50% when the halide are on.

Flat polished aluminum reflectors improved the output of T-5s 120%

The Icecap/sunlight supply style individual reflector with the point above the light increased output of T-5s 200%

I didn't copy down any of the corals he checked the par ratings for but he used 100par
as a high end average. This didn't include too many Acros but a lot of other SPS were included. One that was surprising(so I remember it) was Milli's do fine under par reading as low as 79.

Of all the lighting fixture he tested even the PC fixture outs put was over 100 par
on the majority the output par readings average were 200.

His presentation was very interesting I am lad he was able to make it out to speak to the club.

 

[coralcor]

well... i had planed on painting the new tank black.... what if i went with blue?
and im going mh... found a great deal

 

[delta]

well... i had planed on painting the new tank black.... what if i went with blue?
and im going mh... found a great deal

I would paint the back of your tank what ever color you like. It only effects the back along the tank glass and if you have rocks on the back wall as most do then it is not an issues.

The color had nothing to do with the results and he only pointed it out to explain why the par readings were not symmetrical front to back.

The point to take with this is that even with the reduced output T-5 were sufficient lighting for a reef tank.

 

[coralcor]

I would paint the back of your tank what ever color you like. It only effects the back along the tank glass and if you have rocks on the back wall as most do then it is not an issues.

The color had nothing to do with the results and he only pointed it out to explain why the par readings were not symmetrical front to back.

The point to take with this is that even with the reduced output T-5 were sufficient lighting for a reef tank.

sweet thanks

 

[kotu100]

on the note of the Clam not being able to survive under T5 lighting, i have 1st hand experience with this.
i bought a Crocea clam from Barry back in January 09, under t5 lighting its been doing great on the sandbed of my 75g. per readings last time i had the light meter was about 125 right at the clam.

 

[JayM]

James Fatheree made his reputation as a 'clam guy'. I even bought his clam book at the meeting, and had him sign it....

His answer to what you said also came up.

He said for every one clam that lives under t-5 light, 10 others wouldn't make it, and they certainly won't grow.

 

[Joel A]

what's up with "not being able to keep clams under t5's" ..

That's the biggest load of BS i have ever heard in my life... i have 2 clams under t5's, doing fantastic... and my T5 fixtures isn't even the best on the market for my tank... it could support a 7 or 8 bulb fixture (my tank) but i only have a 6 bulb fixture over it and the clams do fine all the way down on the sand bed...

what the hell kind of t5 fixture was this guy using on a 75 gallon tank??? A nova extreme POS? My 6 bulb ATI sunpower gives me a reading of 250 or so PAR evenly all across the sandbed at about 20-21" down, and the fixture is 5" off the water... 250 is plenty of light to keep most light demanding corals....

 

[Joel A]

James Fatheree made his reputation as a 'clam guy'. I even bought his clam book at the meeting, and had him sign it....

His answer to what you said also came up.

He said for every one clam that lives under t-5 light, 10 others wouldn't make it, and they certainly won't grow.

I'm no clam expert... but is there any specific reason that clams supposedly don't do well under t5's? Is it all just attributed to the "less intense" light, or is there something more too it?

My thoughts are that sure, for every one clam that lives under t5's, another one will die... that might even be true, but my thoughts on why a statistic like that might be true is because the vast majority of t5 fixtures in households are cheap, poor ballasts, reflectors, bulbs, and have no fans... some combination of all of those issues lead to t5 fixtures with poor light output... especially light output all the way down to the sand bed...

my thoughts would be anyone with a high end t5 fixture (aquatinic , ATI, sfigoli, or high end ice cap/ fauna marin retrofits) would have no issues keeping clams...

but then again, maybe i'm just feeling like that's wrong because it's been my personal experience that clams do fine under t5's.

 

[delta]

I'm no clam expert... but is there any specific reason that clams supposedly don't do well under t5's? Is it all just attributed to the "less intense" light, or is there something more too it?

My thoughts are that sure, for every one clam that lives under t5's, another one will die... that might even be true, but my thoughts on why a statistic like that might be true is because the vast majority of t5 fixtures in households are cheap, poor ballasts, reflectors, bulbs, and have no fans... some combination of all of those issues lead to t5 fixtures with poor light output... especially light output all the way down to the sand bed...

my thoughts would be anyone with a high end t5 fixture (aquatinic , ATI, sfigoli, or high end ice cap/ fauna marin retrofits) would have no issues keeping clams...

but then again, maybe i'm just feeling like that's wrong because it's been my personal experience that clams do fine under t5's.

He did not test overdriven bulbs, but did test an AquaActinics fixture.

I will try and layout what he said as best as I can remember. He explained that every clam is different even they are the same clams such as T. croceas. While one might do fine, one might do nothing, one might die, one might grow slow and so on. Clams have a higher biological function than corals and therefore need to create alot more energy that is done from more light. His take seemed to be if you can keep them under T-5 you got lucky with the clam. But he recomends to keep up with the clams energy needs you need to have the output that MH's provide.

Not sure if he did the same par tests with the clams as he did with the corals?

Be intersting to see how those numbers would pan out? Could be something we could ask members to do when they borrow the Light meter.
I think that would be better use of the light meter to see at what par X coral or clam etc does best. Or if that even makes difference to any real degree? The hard part would be figuring out what else effect the corals and is contributing to the corals success.

 

[Joel A]

i think he's gearing that clam statement a good deal towards lower end t5 fixtures... the higher end t5 fixtures give comparable PAR throughout the tank to a lot of typical metal halide set-ups. I'm not saying t5's beat MH's in a PAR contest, because a pair of 10k 400 watt MH's will beat any t5 fixture you can throw up there... but i know for a fact my t5 fixture gives me better PAR on the sandbed (and throughout the rest of the tank for that matter) than a good deal of 150, 175, and 250 watt MH set-ups. So if i can get the same light output as a typical 250 watt metal halide set-up with my t5 fixture, why can't i keep clams with it?

That's why i'm trying to figure out if that statement is simply from a light intensity standpoint, or if their is more to it...???

 

[dcforester1]

+1 to what B said. What does it really matter what the back wall looks like. I was at the meeting, and found it very informative. If what you are using is working, who cares what the background looks like. If things are growing, and it looks good, go with it. I just want to know what people think about not using a skimmer. I am going to be getting a new one in the next couple of months, and maybe I will just stick with my Coralife. My brother, and a friend of mine have gone over 2-3yrs without a skimmer, and both tanks are fine. I am beginning to wonder. People say if you cant test it, dont put it in your tank. Is there any way to test water quality, with and without a skimmer?
Thaks Derek

 

[justintrask]

I know i work at a LFS and we sell skimmers, and we tell people that you must use skimmers, but personally, i have never used a skimmer in my life, and everything is doing great and always has done great.

 

[Joel A]

+1 to what B said. What does it really matter what the back wall looks like. I was at the meeting, and found it very informative. If what you are using is working, who cares what the background looks like. If things are growing, and it looks good, go with it. I just want to know what people think about not using a skimmer. I am going to be getting a new one in the next couple of months, and maybe I will just stick with my Coralife. My brother, and a friend of mine have gone over 2-3yrs without a skimmer, and both tanks are fine. I am beginning to wonder. People say if you cant test it, dont put it in your tank. Is there any way to test water quality, with and without a skimmer?
Thaks Derek

it all depends on the type of corals you want to keep....

personally, i think a solid skimmer is pretty much a no brainer for every tank..... and oh yeah, i add plenty of things to my tank that i can't test for

 

[JohnK]

For clarification, I believe he DID NOT say that "clams cannot be kept under T5"

He did talk about many corals having their needs met (at evidenced by clear sustained growth) at lower par levels (100 and less), at 18" deep. He then said that his observation was that at those light levels clams appeared to stop growing, and that indicated that their needs were probably not being met.

He did not say that you could not acheive greater light levels than that with T5s, and he did not claim to have established a baseline PAR for what clams would need to thrive (and again he made the point that there is much genetic diversity within species of clams and some will have markedly different needs from others).

His statement was in effect; in my 18" deep tank, with the T5 light I had at the time, I found that my clams were not getting enough light to maintain growth, though a surprising number and variety of corals were getting enough *not an actual direct quote*

 

[stingythingy45]

I just think clams like the glimmer of halides.