Nitrates...what's the deal....

[cilyjr]

I have not tested nitrates in my system since I cycled my tank back in 2006. At first I didn't care as I was told nitrates were evil. So I didn't care they were 0 on my salifert kit. Then years go by and I'd test from time to time and always get a reading of 0. Then my nitrate test kit expired and years went by and I test from time to time and still get a 0. So then I would assume that the test kit is expired so I'm getting an inaccurate reading I mean there has to be a little bit of nitrate floating around in there. So I got a new test kit it doesn't expire until 2019 and when I did the test it read 0.

Now I'm reading the forums more often and all the kids are "dude 0 nitrates bad. Nitrates are the cats meow, or the bees knees," (this is how I assume hipster kids talk). Here I was thinking any nitrates were bad now I'm being told I need to have nitrates.

What do you guys think about this?

 

[gwdemos]

I found that getting to ulns helped my acros brighten up and got me to a nice baseline of color/health and ability to balance system nutrient import:export. I always fed heavily and as you know I've got a ton of fat fish. When acro got too pastel in color I grew concerned about nutrient depletion so dosed a bit of nitrogen and now at slightly detectable 2-5ppm on salifert and .04 ish on ULR. I find most acros with deeper color now so keeping this balance. I continue to feed heavy and export heavy. I will say that some acro looked better when toward that pastel coloration but for the majority the slight detectable ranges of phosphate and nitrate seem to give the better coloration overall.

So far as reading what hipsters say about this. I suggest it's your own trip bro. Don't let too many voices ruin your groove


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[cilyjr]

Right on. I've never made any efforts to maintain a ULN system it just seems to have happened that way as far as nitrates. My phosphate test at about .03 to .04. So I definitely don't want to make any efforts to raise that. I do not do any carbon dosing but I do not feed very heavily either. There are 18 fish in a roughly 240 gallon system none of which are much bigger than 4 inches. I'm usually feeding one half inch cube of homemade food and I have an auto feeder that doses a few new life spectrum pellets 2 times daily.

 

[reefstarter]

don't change it if its doing well
chasing numbers will et ya in a world of hurt , just keep an eye on Alk and the other 2 biggies and salinity of course . But I will say that goin over say 10 PPM nitrates can affect some corals I know this from experience

 

[cilyjr]

I'm not interested in number chasing. I'm more interested in understanding if keeping a low ppm of nitrate is beneficial and the science on that. I guess I wasn't clear in my post

 

[IPWitan]

Whether nitrates are good or bad, I will let others chime in. My tanks have all had zero nitrates and it wasn't like I keep a clean tank. I assume you have some sort of export, like a refugium. If so then your tank is consuming all the nitrates as macros grow leaving behind some phosphates. If you have any sort of algae in the tank, it will also grow to balance. I personally think that those small algae in the tank can rapidly expand and contract based on supply.

Should you wish to "add" nitrates, then the balance will change. If you had pure nitrate, then phosphate will go to zero. Or worse, as you dump in more chemicals, your bubble algae will radically multiple. And as it grows in your display, all tests will still read zero and now you have a health invasion of macros in your display.

 

[cilyjr]

I understand that nitrates are in the system and are being consumed. I'm wondering if people who have an abundance of nitrate(ie detectable on hobby grade tritation kits in the low range) have any evidence of it being (empirical or even anecdotal) helpful to coral? Or more likely to zooxanthalle living in coral tissue?

Example...we keep calcium within a certain ppm (420 ish) coral will live with lower levels but we try to shoot for a certain number. Now I'm seeing this with nitrate. Most likely with the introduction of ULNS using some type of carbon dosing (biopellets, vodka, ect). So I'm saying why are we making such an effort to strip something from the water just to replace it with a supplement.

 

[gwdemos]

Instead of looking at it like "strip only to replace". Think of your ecosystem, depletion and replenishment. I so doing you are encouraging a sort of natural selection in the entire biology of the system. Adding a carbon source or other means of "nutrient depletion" mechanism or bio process to your system in a way 'competes' with your Coral's feeding or ability to uptake nutrient. If done to excess you are eliminating a productive ecosystem. If done in a proper balance and subsequently provide a low waste feeding (e.g. Amino, fatty acid) you are introducing a nutrient source that is "highly ingestible" to the coral all within an environment that is biologically balanced and able to accept this addition nutrient source without it being a pollutant to the system. "Quotes" because I'm not a biologist or chemist but it is how I think of the eco-management mannerism as opposed to 'strip only to replace'. I'm sure there are publications to refute or defend this but whatever...I still plan on rotating my crops this garden season just like I stir my sandbed and have an oversized skimmer. ✌


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[gwdemos]

Chris put some white eggcrate in your tank and call it a day.


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[RMc]

What is more important to consider than nitrate test results is:
-how much nitrate and phosphate is going into the system?
-what is consuming the nitrate and phosphate?
-what is your ratio of available nitrate to phosphate?

Specifically, coral, algae, and bacteria all process nitrates and phosphates. If you have algae, the algae may out-compete coral for nitrate and phosphate, if you have a heavy bacteria population (the ulns philosophy) that may be consuming the nitrate and phosphate. It is possible that bacteria and algae may be depleting available nutrients before coral has an opportunity. It may also be the case that bacteria and algae consume nitrate faster than phosphate.

Regarding NP ratio - you're shooting for "red line" - this is somewhere in the area of e.g. 2-4ppm nitrate and .04 ppm phosphate. Why is this important? Well, you can lock out phosphate processing when nitrates hit zero. This puts algae at an advantage. The ratio can be adjusted by chemical filtration like gfo or phosphate sponges, or by adding nitrate (kno3 eg).

 

[Joe Rice]

Almost since I started it 16 months ago, my (low bioload) tank has been running at 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates. I decided a few days ago to try dosing KNO3. I'm starting slowly and only dosing enough to raise the nitrates 2 ppm at a time. What I'm noticing is that by the next morning the nitrates are back down to 0.

I'm starting to think maybe the theory behind stripping and then dosing nitrates is that it gives a finer level of control. In my case, the denitrification seems to be happening in my big block of MarinePure. I don't really have any control over how much it denitrifies. But by letting it do it's thing and then dosing manually I can, in theory, supply just enough to keep my corals happy without causing other problems.