Water testing available at BRS meeting on Saturday, Dec. 8th, 2012

[Greg Hiller]

The BRS reef chemistry testing kit has been 'rejuvenated'. I will be bringing it to this meeting and I will be there to test the tank water of BRS members. The cost (Payable directly to the BRS) will be $2 for specific gravity (salinity) and alkalinity (both tests for $2). $4 for calcium, magnesium, and phosphate (all 3). $5 gets you the 'works'. Minimum sample size is 250 ml (about a cup). DO NOT skimp on the volume or some tests might not be able to be performed. Make sure the sample goes into a CLEAN container or your results (particularly phosphate) may be meaningless. I recommend using only a clean zip loc bag.

I will attempt to test the samples at the meeting, but might run out of time as some of these tests take a considerable amount of time to get accurate results. If so, I will send you your data by PM within the next 24 hours on the forum provided you clearly write your username on your sample container.

I will be there from 12-3 PM. Please get your sample in as early as possible to facilitate the testing.

Details on the BRS testing methods:

The phosphate test is the low range spectrophotometric method (Hanna meter, good down to 0.03 ppm). The specific gravity is with an accurately calibrated refractometer. The calcium and magnesium are using the modified HACH test kit compared with a lab prepared standard. The alkalinity is using a titration with 100 mM acid to pH 4.2 using a calibrated pH probe/meter (the definition of alkalinity).

 

[Greg Hiller]

Oh, I will also have small volumes of a refractometer standard that I can make available for club members. Max. volume per member about 25 ml. Bring something clean and dry to take it away in. Preferably something that can be tightly sealed to mimimize evaporation.

 

[Ellabug]

Awesome! Been having trouble with alk/calc recently and will gladly get them tested to compare to my results!

 

[Greg Hiller]

Another bump for visability.

 

[jamesdong009]

I haven't tested my water in months

This might be a good time to have it accurately checked

 

[MrX]

Oh, I will also have small volumes of a refractometer standard that I can make available for club members. Max. volume per member about 25 ml. Bring something clean and dry to take it away in. Preferably something that can be tightly sealed to mimimize evaporation.

Hey Greg... first, thanks for the refractometer standard. Now, on to the questions:

1) This should calibrate the refractometer to 35ppt, correct?

2) How long should the standard be good for assuming it's kept in an airtight container?

Based on the adjustment I made using the standard my refractometer was off by 0.004-0.005; my SG is at about 1.022-1.023 based on a check after the calibration.

 

[Greg Hiller]

>1) This should calibrate the refractometer to 35ppt, correct?<

Correct

>2) How long should the standard be good for assuming it's kept in an airtight container?<

Until the quarks in it start to break down....that's a joke. Should be good forever.

>Based on the adjustment I made using the standard my refractometer was off by 0.004-0.005; my SG is at about 1.022-1.023 based on a check after the calibration. <<

I little low, but not bad. Curious that when I tested your sample on the BRS's refractometer (which had just been checked for calibration) I got 1.028.

 

[Greg Hiller]

All results for all samples submitted have been PMed to the various BRS members, along with recommendations to correct any problems. A total of 8 samples were submitted. All folks wanted 'the works'. The BRS test kit was working well. IMO, all test should be accurate unless the samples were contaminated prior to submission.

 

[cstmpprl]

Thanks for doing the water test, Greg.

 

[MrX]

>1) This should calibrate the refractometer to 35ppt, correct?<

Correct

>2) How long should the standard be good for assuming it's kept in an airtight container?<

Until the quarks in it start to break down....that's a joke. Should be good forever.

>Based on the adjustment I made using the standard my refractometer was off by 0.004-0.005; my SG is at about 1.022-1.023 based on a check after the calibration. <<

I little low, but not bad. Curious that when I tested your sample on the BRS's refractometer (which had just been checked for calibration) I got 1.028.

Thanks Greg! I'll have to try and recalibrate again today and see if I get the same results.

I haven't touched the SG yet as I wanted to confirm the above and wait for my test results. I'll recalibrate later today and adjust accordingly.

In regards to boosting ALK a bit, you mentioned baking soda; any preference/recommendation for or against the Seachem Reef Builder (Raises Carbonate Alkalinity)?

 

[dannyp02908]

If you already have the reef builder, should be fine. I assume his reccomendation of baking soda was a cheap alternative to off the shelf products. Its based on Randys DIY recipe.

As for your refractometer, do you have one that does automatic temperature calibration? Temperature plays a big role in the reading. A refractometer that does automatic temperature calibration requires about 45 seconds to calibrate to your sample temperature.

 

[dz6t]

I will be worry about boosting Alk alone. Alk swing is a major coral killer. I will dose lime water to bring Alk and Ca up together. It may take a while but small change is better than sudden large change.

 

[Greg Hiller]

I disagree regarding alk swings. I think it may matter how a sudden alk swing occurs. IMO/IME, if you have LOW alk levels (by low I mean below 2.0 meq/l) it is MUCH worse to slowly increase it. The corals are suffering every minute they are subjected to low alk.

This is particularly true for well lit tanks with fast growing corals. IMO there is nothing wrong with a quick (even in 20 seconds when you dump it in) increase of alkalinity on the order of 0.5-1 meq/l using sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). I've done it dozens of times with dozens of tanks of all types of designs. There will be a short, transient drop in pH which will rise again slowly over a few hours as the excess CO2 blows off into the atmosphere of the room the tank is in.

Now, if a REALLY extreme alk swing occurs due to something like a sudden increase in carbon dioxide feed to a calcium reactor (I've done it many times) then I think sometimes the problem is more likley to be due to the Other ions that come into the water along with the dissolution of the calcium reactor media, than the alkalinity increase itself.

Regarding:

>I assume his reccomendation of baking soda was a cheap alternative to off the shelf products<

There are soooo many different aquarium products out there with promises of this or that, and some of them change formuation regularly that I'm reluctant EVER to suggest a particular product for fear that it might have changed. Most of the buffering system of ocean water is carbonate/bicarbonate based (yes there is a little bit of borate buffering, too), so adding a bit of bicarbonate in the form of baking soda (pure baking soda ONLY) is a perfectly acceptable way to boost alk. Keep in mind, reef tanks can get out of balance with respect to calcium and alkalinity. If you KNOW what aspect of your chemistry is 'off', it is perfecly acceptable to bring that parameter back into the proper range with one time additions of buffer or calcium chloride, and then in the long run keep the levels in the right place with additions of a 'balanced' calcium and alkalinity supplementation method. Randy H-F goes over some of what I'm talking about in the following (VERY well written) article:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry

From that alticle:

If alkalinity were less than 4 meq/L (11 dKH; the most common situation in zone 4; shown in Figure 5), I would advise correcting this problem by adding an alkalinity supplement until you have moved into the target zone (or zone 1). For systems with a pH of 8.2 or above, baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) is a good choice. For systems with a pH below 8.2, washing soda (sodium carbonate) is a good choice (though use some baking soda too if the correction is a large one and the pH gets too high; that is, above pH 8.5 or so).

In gauging how much to add, here are some rough guidelines:

Baking Soda
To raise 50 gallons of tank water by 1 meq/L will require about 16 grams of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate; sodium hydrogencarbonate). Since a level teaspoon of baking soda weighs just under 6 grams, then 1 teaspoon will raise the alkalinity in that 50 gallons by ~0.4 meq/L (~1 dKH).

Randy was perhaps being a bit less agressive than myself, but 1 teaspoon baking soda per 20 gallons of tank water predissolved in freshwater (DI if you have it) should be fine (IMO?IME).

 

[frank180reef]

would it be possible for you to summarize the cummulative parameters of the ones u tested, like an average.................I am curiuos if the average person is low in Mag (for example).

 

[MrX]

Here's mine:

Alk (meq/l, multiply by 2.8 for dkH) 2.1 meq/l (ideal value 2.5-4)
Salinity/Specific gravity relative to water 1.028 (ideal value 1.023-1.029)
Calcium (ppm or mg/l, +/- 15 ppm) 458 ppm (ideal value 350-500 ppm)
Magnesium (ppm, or mg/l, +/- 50 ppm) 1409 ppm (ideal value 1100-1400 ppm)
Phosphate (ppm, or mg/l, +/- 0.02 ppm) 0.23 ppm (ideal value <0.07 ppm)

Salinity tested with my refract, and at the LFS, were both 1.026. The phosphate I'm not surprised at, I feed everyday, and I know I'm overfeeding. I've cut back this week to about half of what I normally give. Will see how that goes. Just makes me nervous that the fish that hide/stay down low aren't getting what they need.

Based on Greg's suggestion I got some baking soda and dosed that on Sunday. Need to retest the ALK and see if it's gone up any.

Anyone else that got tested want to share?

 

[Privateer]

Here are my results, for those interested. I was a bit suprised that they were not worse since I don't really dose, and my tank is only about 8 months old.

Alk (meq/l, multiply by 2.8 for dkH) 2.6 meq/l (ideal value 2.5-4)
Salinity/Specific gravity relative to water 1.022
Calcium (ppm or mg/l, +/- 15 ppm) 336 ppm (ideal value 350-500 ppm)
Magnesium (ppm, or mg/l, +/- 50 ppm) 1071 ppm (ideal value 1100-1400 ppm)
Phosphate (ppm, or mg/l, +/- 0.02 ppm) 0.03 ppm (ideal value <0.07 ppm)

Recommendations:

Looks good in general. Salinity a little low. Calcium and magnesium a little low.

 

[Newguy]

Alk (meq/l, multiply by 2.8 for dkH) 3.2 meq/l (ideal value 2.5-4) Salinity/Specific gravity relative to water 1.027 (ideal 1.023-1.029) Calcium (ppm or mg/l, +/- 15 ppm) 494 ppm (ideal value 350-500 ppm) Magnesium (ppm, or mg/l, +/- 50 ppm) 1351 ppm (ideal value 1100-1400 ppm) Phosphate (ppm, or mg/l, +/- 0.02 ppm) 0.02 ppm (ideal value <0.07 ppm)

Recommendations:

All looks good.

 

[Greg Hiller]

>would it be possible for you to summarize the cummulative parameters of the ones u tested, like an average.................I am curiuos if the average person is low in Mag (for example). <

I tossed the papers I wrote it all down on and would now have to sift one by one through the PMs I sent out, and I'm WAY too lazy for that. In general thought there was a range of magnesium level, I'd say on average they were a little on the low side, but often times that was due to the salinity also being a bit low. I think the 1409 reading listed out above was the highest.

One member had REALLY high calcium levels. So far out of the normal range that I'm not sure the number I returned to him was all that accurate (we are talking >1,000 ppm). This might have been due to sample contamination (he put the sample in the same container as he had mixed up him calcium chloride solution in). He'd been dosing calcium chloride without checking the levels. He did say that he was having problems with a lot of snail and hermit crab die off.

 

[Ellabug]

My alk tested pretty low, at 1.7meq/l. I knew it was low because I've been having trouble keeping it up for the last month or so. I've now brought it up to 3.0meq/l using Seachem Reef Builder. I have 2 acan colonies in my tank that have been shrunken since last weekend - I presume it was the low alk. But they haven't opened up yet even though my alk is now back up. How long would it take for them to improve? For reference, they've been in my tank in the same spots since April and have always been very inflated and healthy. There have been no other changes in my tank in terms of lighting, feeding, flow, etc., and there is no evidence of brown jelly or anything bothering them. Everything else looks fine (and I have a heavily stocked tank with SPS, LPS, and Zoos). Is it normal for acans to respond this way to alk swings?