And the questions come........

[zev]

Okay so here I go....no matter how many posts and forums, books and magazines.....no matter how many people I talk to the question arise when you are actually doing a tank rather than planning to do a tank.

first, I am testing everyother day as the cycle seems to be on the end of the line......
1) I am finding that my alk is low about 2.5 meg/l is this something that I need to worry about now?

2)As well my ph is a little low at 8.1, should I start testing for calcium (I already have the test kit)?

3) Do I need to raise my alk, and how?

4) Is this an okay start for a refugium until I can figure out how to plumb in a refugium, I am using the striplight that came with my ten gallon QT? That is chaeto in there and yes I know what everyone says about trickle filters but I have a plan

 

[TBoisvert]

Just wondering why you are using bioballs.

Tam

 

[wrassefan]

if your using liverock....shouldn't need the bioballs....any skimmer? what is the return and or flow?? tank size?

 

[etszoo]

Look at RC and go check the Randy Holmes-Farley forums. Also, is that an outlet strip
to the right of the fuge? Probably not the best location due to salt/vapor and pulling that pump out to clean it once-in-a-while. I'll second the question of the bio-balls if
you have live rock and skimmer. PH and alk are acceptable for a reef fyi. Don't go nuts
over params unless they fluctuate a lot.
-Eric

 

[zev]

TBoisvert: I am using bioballs because I plan to have a larger bioload (a few fish). I know that bioballs be considered nitrate factories, but I will be using the same principal that they use at tropical isle......I have split the bioballs into two bunches and every six months I will clean one side. Might be totally unnessecary but I like the added filtration as well as the oxignation factor. I have read about trickles used, with bioballs, for this type of situation.

wrassefan: The skimmer is a cpr bak pak hanging on the display tank. My total flow is 23x plus whatever the skimmer puts out, I have 2 maxi 1200 on a wavemaker, 2 maxi 400 connected to a spray bar behind the rocks, and a mag 7 return pump... the skimmer was bought off the boards and I have no Idea what the output is.

Oh, my tank is a 55 gallon,

 

[zev]

etszoo: I will check out the RC forum....good eyes that is not a power strip but it is a wavemaker which I will move right now.

 

[denvig]

With a 55 I would loose the bio balls. There is plenty of room for rock.

 

[Nemo415]

I agree with Denvig but if you feel you need it for a heavy bio load dump the bio balls now and replace with CURED live rock rubble form your LFS , it is fairly cheap and you will not have to replace or clean it . Also LRR is way better , you will not regret it . HTH

 

[saltwaterB]

In the long run, the Bio balls will cause you Nitrates no matter how you look at it. It is not so much the fact that you should clean them so they don't trap debree. The inherent problem with Bio balls and reef tanks is that the bacteria groups that colonize the Bio-balls convert Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate very quickly, thus producing a larger amount of Nitrate much quicker than using Live Rock and a Skimmer. Often I have seen tanks that use both have Liverock that looks pretty sterile. It may be possible that the bio-balls take important food away from bacteria in/on Liverock.
Either way any method will work. It is all about balancing the nutrients, and diluting the wastes. Over the last 15 years I have seen almost every method and combinations of methods both be very successful and fail. What is the Best/Right way to set up and keep a reef tank? Will we ever know? Best of luck. If you do keep this setup, I would be intersted to note your progress. I love that this hobby is really all about opinions (besides a few scientific facts) It just happens to be what opinion is hot at the time.
Hey, when are Skilters going to be the next big thing? Can't wait to break mine out.
Actually don't laugh but I did use a Skilter on a QT tank for a long time, and it worked great.

 

[BigSmokeShowJOE]

In the long run, the Bio balls will cause you Nitrates no matter how you look at it. It is not so much the fact that you should clean them so they don't trap debree. The inherent problem with Bio balls and reef tanks is that the bacteria groups that colonize the Bio-balls convert Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate very quickly, thus producing a larger amount of Nitrate much quicker than using Live Rock and a Skimmer. Often I have seen tanks that use both have Liverock that looks pretty sterile. It may be possible that the bio-balls take important food away from bacteria in/on Liverock.
Either way any method will work. It is all about balancing the nutrients, and diluting the wastes. Over the last 15 years I have seen almost every method and combinations of methods both be very successful and fail. What is the Best/Right way to set up and keep a reef tank? Will we ever know? Best of luck. If you do keep this setup, I would be intersted to note your progress. I love that this hobby is really all about opinions (besides a few scientific facts) It just happens to be what opinion is hot at the time.
Hey, when are Skilters going to be the next big thing? Can't wait to break mine out.
Actually don't laugh but I did use a Skilter on a QT tank for a long time, and it worked great.

I agree with him In the long run, the Bio balls will cause you Nitrates no matter how you look at it.live rock is the answer!

__________________

 

[BigSmokeShowJOE]

And a good Skimmer to!

 

[zev]

I have heard and read many opinions on this matter....no doubt live rock and a good skimmer are required (however I have seen incredible tanks in person that do not, and never have, used skimmers) my plan consists of grouping the bioballs in two bunches, then alternating the cleaning every six months (time frame is an estimate, obviously this will be dictated by the nitrate levels. This is similar to some very large setups that I have seen.

Yes, I agree that this is more work than removing the bioballs now but I also believe that it cannot hurt to have "filtration assistance". I am no expert as this is my first saltwater tank, but I believe that my information is correct and that this is ONE way of maintaining proper water conditions.

I will see.....if I was not intrigued by experamentation this would be the wrong hobby for me

I appreciate everybodies views and would love to hear more......after all I am a newbie and have not put any of these ideas into action.

 

[NateHanson]

Your plan sounds fine, but I don't think it will address the nitrate problem with bioballs. Bioballs don't build-up detritus over time and then start producing nitrate. They actually create nitrates from day one because they're unable to support the low-oxygen environment bacteria that turn nitrate into harmless nitrogen gas. So instead of passing the nitrate byproduct off to the next bacterial processing plant, the bioballs release the nitrate into your water. Live rock on the other hand has deep microaerophilic pores that can support the last step of the nitrogen processing cycle.

So while cleaning the bioballs is a good idea, it might still result in high nitrates.

 

[nunofs]

This is similar to some very large setups that I have seen.

Were those large setups you saw reef tanks, or fish-only? For fish-only tanks, low nitrate levels aren't as critical as for a reef setup.

Nuno

 

[Jill & Brian]

I think that the key to making this setup work for you in a reef enviornment will be to have a frequent water change schedule to dilute the nitrates. As long as they are getting removed from the system by some method, you should be fine.

I am interested to see how this system works for you, and good luck!!!

 

[zev]

That is the plan.....I was planning on 10% water change weekly.....if this does not cut it for removing nitrates then I will resign my experament and remove the bio-balls......but in reality I'd rather work with the bio-balls than pay for live rock to kill in the trickle.....I do like the idea of oxygen exchange in the trickle effect.

Well we will see.

 

[NateHanson]

Your skimmer will provide any aeration and gas exchange that your tank needs. All those little bubbles are great for blowing off CO2 and N2, and absorbing 02.

 

[mano1192]

In the long run, the Bio balls will cause you Nitrates no matter how you look at it. It is not so much the fact that you should clean them so they don't trap debree. The inherent problem with Bio balls and reef tanks is that the bacteria groups that colonize the Bio-balls convert Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate very quickly, thus producing a larger amount of Nitrate much quicker than using Live Rock and a Skimmer. Often I have seen tanks that use both have Liverock that looks pretty sterile. It may be possible that the bio-balls take important food away from bacteria in/on Liverock.
Either way any method will work. It is all about balancing the nutrients, and diluting the wastes. Over the last 15 years I have seen almost every method and combinations of methods both be very successful and fail. What is the Best/Right way to set up and keep a reef tank? Will we ever know? Best of luck. If you do keep this setup, I would be intersted to note your progress. I love that this hobby is really all about opinions (besides a few scientific facts) It just happens to be what opinion is hot at the time.
Hey, when are Skilters going to be the next big thing? Can't wait to break mine out.
Actually don't laugh but I did use a Skilter on a QT tank for a long time, and it worked great.

I agree with this, I use 2 eheim filters now for 4 years on my 40gal and I cannot get rid of nitrates! Plus it does kill off beneficial nutrients as I cannot grow coraline on my rocks at all! I would ditch the balls for LRR asap, you cant go wrong!

 

[Greg Hiller]

>I am finding that my alk is low about 2.5 meg/l is this something that I need to worry about now? <

2.5 is a bit low. I would not let it get lower. You can drip kalkwasser (limewater), which will also increase your pH, or you can add some baking soda (1 teaspoon/20 gallons tank water, dissolve in freshwater before adding).

It is worthwhile to also test for calcium and keep it near or above 400 ppm. This will help grow coraline algae which will compete for nutrients with other less desirable algaes.

Long term I've never had good luck going skimmerless in a reef tank. I've tried it on several systems, several times. If the system is really well balanced (lots of coral growth, low fish load and therefore feeding), sometimes things will go well for a few months, but my experience has always been that cyano usually starts to grow. I will admit though, I've not really tried going skimmerless on a system that has a refugium that is growing and harvesting a lot of algae. Even a weak skimmer, IME, is better than none.

 

[zev]

Although I have seen systems that are going skimmerless...I am not. I have a CPR bak pak running on my tank.

Are there any threads or web info on dripping kalkwasser that you know of....and I tested my calcium levels three days ago and it was at 500 ppm. I do not know that much about kalkwasser/suppliment dosing. I have seen the online calculators though......

I am starting to rethink the bio-balls......does the use of LR rubble in the trickle section kill the live rock....if so is there something cheaper to use?