fresh water storage & salt water mixing - looking to expand knowledge

[rwjfish]

All,

I have seen various set ups for Fresh Water storage and salt water mixing, but never quite mastered this myself.

in the past i have used the 44 gallon brute containers for fresh water and for new salt water mixing, i have not used the covers in the past..
I am looking to get away from this method and set myself up better.


The issues I had in the past were related to water quality, whether it be due to bucket quality (even though food grade) or water source; the issue was that the fresh and salt water started smelling like ammonia/cat-pee...
This especially occurred when the fresh water would be sitting around for a longer period of time or when the covers were on and the condensation occurred. Sometimes, if a bucket was closed with the cover, with just a little bit of freshwater left in it, the smell after opening would be unbearably strong.
- no actual cat had access
- clean (ro/di filtered) water (0 tds)
- 44 gallon food grade buckets from home depot.




How are you storing your fresh water for top-offs? is the solution air-tight/covered or wide open? what type of storage? how much?

How are you mixing your new salt water? What type of storage? How long do you store it for? covered/not covered? Why?


looking to learn as much as I can here.

 

[reefstarter]

RO water is a magnet for dirt so a cover is needed keep the water moving and it helps but eventually Bactria will build up so using the water within say 2 weeks keeps it "fresh"

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Look for food grade HDPE tanks. Any non-chlorinated water will develop bacterial issues over time, so wash your tank out as indicated - usually by a bacterial slime on the surface of the barrel.

Russ

 

[STiTCH87]

I use a food grade 2 gallon bucket for a reservoir for my ATO and I used to blindly refill it with RO from a larger jug until one day I decided to clean the ATO pump and looked in the bucket (which did have a cover) and there was a miniature lab experiment going on in there. (So much for 0 TDS right?) so now I clean out my reservoir bucket at least once a week with vinegar and fresh RO.

 

[this is me]

Get yourself a glass tank when Petco do the $1/gallon sale. A 20long or 40B is plenty for ATO reservoir and paint all the sides black. Use an acrylic sheet for cover. Definitely the most economical and safe way to store your ATO.

If you want something more fancier, you can go with one of these. I have the 60gallon version and while it's very nice, it's overkill for ATO water storage. But hey, I don't have to worry about plastic leaching into tank and causing issue to my investment. I've stored RODI or months without any issue.
http://advancedacrylics.com/collections/auto-top-off/products/autotop-off

 

[this is me]

They also have smaller and space saving container and reasonable price.
http://advancedacrylics.com/collections/auto-top-off/products/copy-of-10-gal-black-ato-1

 

[STiTCH87]

^^^Very well said! Great suggestion!

 

[cilyjr]

there are 3 types of food safe plastics commonly available on the market.
1. HDPE (high density polyethylene, recycle code 2) is the most common because of its rigidity. Pretty much all 5 gallon buckets are made of it. it is also what the large brute containers are made from. i use these in my restaurant to store flour sugar ect. and can be bought at any commercial food service suppliers and from home depot and lowes with caution. it is important to note that NOT ALL HDPE is food safe however. this is because as it is molded a release agent is sometimes used in the manufacturing to make it easier to remove from the mold. many are toxic.

2. LLDPE or LDPE (linear low density polyethylene, recycle code 4) it is less rigid. Most of your rubbermade containers are made from it. we use these in the restaurant to mix and hold things like coleslaw and large batches of orzo salad ect. these can be bought from commercial food service suppliers home depot and lowes and have little risk of not being food safe they are however less rigid (think of a bucket you use to put fall leaves into) and mat not be the best for long term storage because of the possibility of becoming deformed. i find containers that use this plastic personally as its cheap and easy to find ans because of its flexability it doesnt have the same mold release issues HDPE has. but i do worry about them breaking.

3. PP (polypropylene, recycle code 5) it might be hard to find a large container made of PP. it is mostly used in those little brown bottles that your prescription pills came in and the disposable ziploc containers with the blue lids that have taken over your kitchen. the issue with PP is The Environmental Working Group classifies polypropylene as a low to moderate health hazard. they state "two substances found to leach from polypropylene labware - an antimicrobial chemical known as quaternary ammonium and a plastic softening agent called oleamide" this might be only because PP is used in some makeup as an ingredient.

the other plastics i would not use though they are in many bottles one finds food in is PETE (polyethylene terephthalate recycle code 1) as it is known to leach BPA over long periods. and OTHER (other recycle code 7) this really speaks for it self. it is anything that does not fit in the other categories. it could be ok but you cannot know.

finally vinyl (PVC recycle code 3) strangely not considered food safe due to the use of phthalates to soften the plastic. many companies are using non-phthalate plasticizers since 2010 so it may be changed at some point.

thats what I found. my curiosity was piqued for both the hobby and my work (a few years ago when the #7 plastic ban happened due to bpa)as my restaurant is "hippie Friendly" ( that just made me LOL for real) anyway thats what i found i hope it helps

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

The tubing used on RO systems is typically LLDPE or LDPE.

Russ

 

[NH Fish]

Get yourself a glass tank when Petco do the $1/gallon sale. A 20long or 40B is plenty for ATO reservoir and paint all the sides black. Use an acrylic sheet for cover. Definitely the most economical and safe way to store your ATO.

If you want something more fancier, you can go with one of these. I have the 60gallon version and while it's very nice, it's overkill for ATO water storage. But hey, I don't have to worry about plastic leaching into tank and causing issue to my investment. I've stored RODI or months without any issue.
http://advancedacrylics.com/collections/auto-top-off/products/autotop-off

I'm liking that!

 

[dcforester1]

Call Rob (Smartfish). He posts on here and gets 55gal barrels and they are great. I have one for top off, and one for new SW.

Good Luck Derek

 

[Greg Hiller]

I use a large polyethylene 55 gallon drum for RO/DI storage. I clean it out about once every 5 years. I've never seen any need to use the water by a certain date. The level of the drum rarely gets very low. Yes, some bacteria grow on the surfaces of the drum; they consume small amounts of nutrients that leach out of the plastic. Really not a big deal. The level of bacteria in your tank dwarf this so much is makes no difference.

I make up saltwater in another smaller polyethylene drum. I dump DI water in, turn on a powerhead that sits at the bottom of the drum and then pour in the saltmix. I leave a plastic gallon pitcher floating in the drum all the time so I can easily dip some out (doubles as the measuring device for the salt mix). I let the water circulate for an hour or so to mix the salt, then leave it in the drum as long as need be. Weeks...months at room temp. Again, bacteria will grow, not a big deal. They really don't hurt anything, or IME make a difference. I clean the saltwater makeup drum probably 1X/year or so. Due to the supersaturated nature of the chemical mix used in these mixes, some precipitation does occur. The precipitate is mainly calcium chloride, but it seems to pull some other components (likely mostly trace contaminants) out of the mix and that contributes to a brown discoloration over time. To clean this drum I use tap water with some hydrochloric (it's called muriatic acid at the hardware store) acid tossed in, give a good scrub with a scratchy pad and some hand dishwasher soap, and then rinse very thoroughly. Do this outside on a warm summer day!

My drums are covered, but certainly not air tight. I agree there can be a slight order of ammonia at times. This is most likely from the small amounts of ammonium ion that are a contaminant of many of the salt used in the preparation of the salt mixes. In every batch of NaCl or KCl is there is some NH4Cl. While you might be able to detect a slight odor, I really don't think there is any hazard to your tank to be using this. The trace levels of ammonia/ammonium in your water will very quickly (minutes to hours) be consumed by bacterial and corals in your tank to near zero. This all assumes of course that you are doing moderate size (<20%) water changes on an established system.

If you are doing huge water changes (>20% of tank volume), or are trying to propagate some tiny invertebrate in a system with no real biological filter, then you might want to be more careful. In that case you'd probably want to bring the water up to temp. and bubble air through an airstone at least overnight so that everything comes to equilibrium and the water is at air saturation levels of oxygen, and in equilibrium with atmospheric CO2 (today that is 396 ppm [measured in Hawaii], but is rising at about 2.5 ppm/year for those keeping track! YIKES! http://co2now.org/) so that the pH also stabilizes. When I was raising invertebrates or larval fish I would use water from an established reef rather than freshly prepped water. Always seemed to make sense to take from a stable environment to me.

 

[rwjfish]

Thank you very much! These responses are wonderful. Now just need to free up a little time to get it set up right!


Thanks again
-Rudy