I Believe in Aquaforest Products!! Check out these pictures of my Acros

[Archit]

well if the OP is OK with this discussion then go at it and have a blast as this is his thread my interpretation of the thread title was to show people results of AquaForest line instead of opening up a discussion forum on what works for every one else.

And Adam, agreed -- potato is potato. no one is denying that. And if what you are doing works for you, good for you! I'm not here to tell anyone what to do and what not to do -- none of my business really as there are tons of ways to have successful tanks. As mentioned above, I was just trying to keep the conversation on topic based on my interpretation of the title.

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[IPWitan]

I read over the Hovanec study (part 1 anyway). One core premise that seems glaringly missed is that the NSW sample they measured against was off the breach in Malibu, CA, presumably at or near the surface. Since I don't think any of my corals come from there, it is hard to measure how useful their comparison is. I am truly surprised that they didn't measure the NSW against multiple known locations where our corals are collected (and I don't mean one of Dong's display tanks ). Perhaps different salt makers have done this and have designed their salts to match a specific geographic location.

The other difficult point to "assume" is that all the elements in NSW are good for coral - particularly those in Malibu. The air in NYC is very different from that in Miami to Minnesota to Denver, yet humans and all kinds of life forms seem to be doing just fine. Even for plants, most "will it live in my zone" questions relate to temperature and perhaps humidity, but not how much O2 is in the air. Since I have yet to see the studies by the primary salt makers that show their concoction is better than anything else, I have to take their marketing arm with (gulp) a grain of salt.

To further this discussion, perhaps one could add what AF provides that is beyond using, say IO and BRS 2 part ingredients. Moreover, I can budget to add trace elements, but I don't really know what to add. Is there an AF product that I can add that will get me most of the way without the entire system? I am also curious on whether these trace elements can be added (or are added) into the tank via the frozen food. I also question how these trace elements make it into the coral? Does it come from the water or from the critters they eat, or both? Sadly, so much of this hobby is marketing driven.

It is hard for me to speak about this because my tanks do NOT look nearly as good as these posters.

 

[STiTCH87]

Where can you buy it cheaper than ReefCrystal?

DFS (Not going to spell it out as I am unsure if I can even advertise where per forum rules? Hmm...
But yes $40 for a 200g box. Just standard.

FWIW, my views are influenced by Randy Holmes post below:

"Here's my standard commentary on salts. Some of it may be a bit dated as I've not kept up on every formulation change to every brand:

I do not think there is a "best" salt mix. Nearly all of them will work fine as long as you know their pros and cons.

I don't want excessive borate, which leaves out Seachem.

I don't want vitamins or anything else organic in my mix (because I doubt their utility, they degrade with time to who knows what,
bacteria may thrive on them as I store new salt water for a substantial period, they are totally undescribed with respect to amounts or identity,
they are often not naturally present in natural seawater at appreciable levels, and because I've occasionally had them mess with my skimmer),
so that tosses out some like Reef Crystals, hW Marinemix Plus BioElements, Kent, Coralife, and Nutri-SeaWater.

I don't want excessive calcium (long term use of limewater as I use drives up calcium, so I do not want it starting high),
so that tosses out a bunch, such as Kent, Seachem, Coralife and Oceanic.

There are certain companies that I will not support due to their misleading claims and/or product lines.
That tosses out a few which I won't detail here since it is my personal thought as opposed to a specific issue with their salt mix.

I won't use certain lines of natural seawater due to excessive metals in it.

That only leaves a few to choose from, such as Instant Ocean and Tropic Marin Pro.

The remaining ones might all be fine for me, but IO is lower in cost, especially if you get it when it goes on sale (which it frequently does).
It also has a very long track record of success in many aquaria with relatively few concerning issues of bad batches. "


BUUUT!!! Back on topic...

Aqua Forest does work, and works well. So aside from what I feel is an inappropriate price tag, it's not that it is an inferior product or anything.

 

[dz6t]

I see, you mean IO instead of AF salt.
I think I mis-read your post.

 

[dz6t]

Why do I believe I am seeing these results?

(1)Components 1,2, and 3. Provide an IONIC balance when dosing Alk and Calc. Additionally they provide some 25 micronutrients corals will uptake in proportion to ALK and CALC uptake according to the manufacturer.

(2)Nutrient control. Adding bacteria and a carbon source every day is a proven way to reduce nitrates and phosphates.

(3)Their coral E contains a safe form of copper that reduces zooxanthellae in coral creating light more vibrant colors.

For #1, may be, but it is still largely I know how trace elements affect coral health. Trace elements present in natural sea water does not mean coral or fish will benefit from all of them.

#2) That is true. Studies show that some coral actually take in some organic carbon, such as vitamins, amino acids, fatty acids etc.

For #3), sorry I have to say it is the biggest pile of BS the manufacture put up.


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[dz6t]

I read over the Hovanec study (part 1 anyway). One core premise that seems glaringly missed is that the NSW sample they measured against was off the breach in Malibu, CA, presumably at or near the surface. Since I don't think any of my corals come from there, it is hard to measure how useful their comparison is. I am truly surprised that they didn't measure the NSW against multiple known locations where our corals are collected (and I don't mean one of Dong's display tanks ). Perhaps different salt makers have done this and have designed their salts to match a specific geographic location.

The other difficult point to "assume" is that all the elements in NSW are good for coral - particularly those in Malibu. The air in NYC is very different from that in Miami to Minnesota to Denver, yet humans and all kinds of life forms seem to be doing just fine. Even for plants, most "will it live in my zone" questions relate to temperature and perhaps humidity, but not how much O2 is in the air. Since I have yet to see the studies by the primary salt makers that show their concoction is better than anything else, I have to take their marketing arm with (gulp) a grain of salt.

To further this discussion, perhaps one could add what AF provides that is beyond using, say IO and BRS 2 part ingredients. Moreover, I can budget to add trace elements, but I don't really know what to add. Is there an AF product that I can add that will get me most of the way without the entire system? I am also curious on whether these trace elements can be added (or are added) into the tank via the frozen food. I also question how these trace elements make it into the coral? Does it come from the water or from the critters they eat, or both? Sadly, so much of this hobby is marketing driven.

It is hard for me to speak about this because my tanks do NOT look nearly as good as these posters.

Very well said. I have used and using all type of salt in the past and current, what I learn is that all of them are basically the same.
For the entire line of AF products, I think their biggest contribution is make it easy for hobbyists to maintain their tanks in a affordable way.

But they really need to stop putting out those false claims because information is only a google away and people can find out easily.

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[gwdemos]

I'm interested in long term usage of the liquid polymers (I think it's AF np pro) and Any potential build up of insoluble polymer and excess biomass.


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[nemodan]

I'm interested in long term usage of the liquid polymers (I think it's AF np pro) and Any potential build up of insoluble polymer and excess biomass.


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http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2591012

 

[wolffman1992]

So here is what I am going to do. Once a month I will post pictures of my tank while also updating everyone on the growth, coloration, and mortality rate within my tank so that way you guys can get a better picture as to why I like these products. Also if you are of the thought that there are better ways of achieving great results with SPS please feel free to post pictures of your tank explaining what it is you do.

Here is AF logbook 1 7/25/2016. Sorry for the quality of pictures I was in a rush.

http://s578.photobucket.com/user/Wolff1992/slideshow/aquaforest log 1

 

[wolffman1992]

August Update on Aquaforest Product use Log

Here is my August update on using solely Aquaforest products in my tank. August will make 6 months of using their salt and about month 5 of using their full line.

Chalice Woes— Most people love LPS corals more than SPS but I am the complete opposite. The only LPS I am a real sucker for are chalices. Chalices and SPS corals are on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to demands and needs and replicating multiple reef zones in a 70 gallon cube is a very difficult task. About two weeks ago my prized chalices began to take a dive. Now I did introduce a chalice frag given to me by a friend who swore his was receding because of a bacterial infection and warned me not to put it in my tank. Needless to say I put it in my tank and about two weeks after introducing the new frag my chalices that have been with me for at least over a year began to wither away. You cannot test for bacterial infections and all my params and temps did not change a bit. So I cannot 100% it was a bacterial infection. My other thought could be I lost them due to low nutrients from not feeding my tank often (every other day) in combination with using Pro-bio S and NP pro products. I have been on the AF program long before this happened and cannot pin point what it was they killed them all but it was one of the two. Other than that LPS looks good (Blastos, scoly, etc.)

SPS— SPS has been a booming. Growth has been steady colors are becoming pastel , vibrant, and even in some respect translucent. Polyp extension is incredible. And I have notice when purchasing new SPS the polyps on the incoming SPS happens within minutes which is a new observation to me.

Putting things to the test with pictures–

OK, many of you guys are skeptical and have different opinions about AF products and their claims. I am by no means a scientist and will not 100% isolate the results of this experiment to AF products but rather my husbandry style in conjunction with AF products. So here is what I did. I purchase 1. A really high end beautiful Strawberry Shortcake macro, 2. A decently colored stressed out Milli and 3. a brown colony I saw a lot of potential in. Below I posted a photo bucket link with pictures of all three colonies along with a full tank shot and some other colonies I decided to shoot. All images are raw not enhancing, nothing.

Picture 1: full tank shot

picture 2: bonsai colony

picture 3: Aussie colony

Picture 4: RR wolverine

Picture 5: SSC (part of experiment)

Picture 6:brown colony (part of experiment)

picture 7: brown colony again

picture 8: stressed pink milli

picture 9: blue milli I cut about a month ago with new grow already you can see it in the back


http://s578.photobucket.com/user/Wolff1992/slideshow/aquaforest log 3

 

[wolffman1992]

bump

 

[STiTCH87]

Well if noting else, you certainly can't say you aren't great at keeping SPS alive. That's one heck of a display. Nice job!

 

[wolffman1992]

Thanks stitch it means a lot!!

 

[Nanoreef15]

Any updates on this? Any updates on your monthly growth and coloration?.
I like to give this salt try to see if it can help getting all my browned out sps to color up.
Thanks

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[dz6t]

I think the tank was taken down.

 

[STiTCH87]

Any updates on this? Any updates on your monthly growth and coloration?.
I like to give this salt try to see if it can help getting all my browned out sps to color up.
Thanks

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If your SPS are brown, salt won't fix the issue. You are likely overfeeding, have too high of PO4 and nitrates, and/or parameters are out of whack. Alongside the type of light and coloration/intensity being used.
There are many variables, but salt is an unlikely one IMO.

 

[Nanoreef15]

Most aquaforest users talk highly about this magic salt and has seen increase in coloration and huge differences after using this salt. That is why i hope to know so i can give my once used to be a green slimer, brown digi and birdnest a chance to color up again.

 

[STiTCH87]

Most aquaforest users talk highly about this magic salt and has seen increase in coloration and huge differences after using this salt. That is why i hope to know so i can give my once used to be a green slimer, brown digi and birdnest a chance to color up again.

I'll all unproven hype via word of mouth. I could go into a lengthy detail of why, but DZ6T explains it best. Basically there is no proof probiotics work for anything, even on humans, and no proof it could survive in a high salinity salt mix.
There is no proof that the additives in that salt help coral coloration either. Instead the salt is a "dirty" salt if you will, and the phosphates from organic compounds are what bring out coral coloration and growth.

Contrary to what the masses argue, corals need a sustained level of nitrates and phosphates for proper health and growth. While that number is low, it is more beneficial than targeting zero.

Look at any tank of the month members on any forum, or hobbyists who've owned tanks over 5 years. They all use cheap basic salts. Look at marine biologists, live aquaria, mariculture facilities, etc.
They all use plain IO salt (most not even reef crystals).

AquaForest is all European Snake Oil.

 

[Bao]

well it is just a bucket of salt. You will never know until you try it out.
So grab a bucket and change some some water.
Pro: Salt dissolves very quickly and I can change water within the hour.
Con: Don't like the bucket it is in. Very hard to close.

I only started using this salt recently, so can't really tell if it is working or not.

 

[Spudsly]

I think one of the reasons the problem is so difficult to nail down is also because it's not a very well controlled experiment. Your mannerisms and husbandry skills are constantly changing and so any observed differences are probably more strongly correlated with other uncontrolled things or confirmation bias. I'm not trying to make a statement one way or another about what does or does not work, but it's well established that big expensive placebos work much better than cheap ones.