looking for recommendation on a return pump

[reef87]

I am setting a new tank in a couple of weeks and I am having a hard time choosing the right return pump

tank is 70g in first floor and a 40g sump in the basement.
Sump is directly underneath the display just a floor below. From the bottom of the sump to the return nozzle is about 10-11ft vertical up. I am looking for something that can give me about 300-400 gph at the return nozzle.
Was thinking of using my eheim 1262 but wasn't sure that is going to be enough. So here I am, looking for a recommendation on a good & efficiency return pump
can be internal or external pump
electric efficiency pump
and reliable


thank you very much:Sam

 

[dz6t]

May be you should give a Jebao DC9000 a try, Max Flow 2377 GPH (9000 LPH) Max Head 14.1 ft. Input AC110/60hz Output DC24V Watts 70w
At 11 ft, it should still put out close to a 400 GPH.
Our sponsor, Fragfreak carries them and I just bought a DC-6000 from them. Fast shipping and great service.

 

[JohnK]

I'd be a bit nervous running any pump that close to it's shut off height. I mean just how precise are those flow charts?

 

[wdebenedettojr]

I'd be a bit nervous running any pump that close to it's shut off height. I mean just how precise are those flow charts?

+1. Mag drive pumps have been around forever and I have always had great luck with them. They are built like tanks. They can be noisy compared to the new DC pumps but since it will be in the basement you shouldn't hear it. That being said the new jebao dc pumps have gotten great reviews but I would recommend getting a larger version to prevent what John is saying.

 

[JasonandSarah]

If you go on Amazon right now the jebao dc12000 is actually a couple dollars cheaper then the dc9000. Frag freaks may price match if they can. But since it's dc go bigger and be safe. Turn it down if needed
I believe they're $142 right now.I'm getting one myself

 

[JasonandSarah]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00IN...165_QL70&qid=1407166402&sr=8-5#ref=mp_s_a_1_5

 

[ro_nicu]

The dc12000 will create a big mess if run under pressure. I am running 2 eductors with it and there's salt creep at every freaking joint of that pump. it is assembled properly, plumbed properly, orings lubed with silicone grease, etc, etc, etc. it will not get any salt creep if I run it a 4 or lower, go to the higher output settings and it starts building creep.

Get something pressure rated if you're going to run high head on it. 11ft vertical + 3-4 feet in the plumbing is wuite a lot.

 

[reef87]

from the bottom of the sump to the top of the display is about 11ft.
so basically about 6ft from sump to the basement ceiling and another 5 ft from the bottom of the stand to the top of the tank = 11ft

thanks

The dc12000 will create a big mess if run under pressure. I am running 2 eductors with it and there's salt creep at every freaking joint of that pump. it is assembled properly, plumbed properly, orings lubed with silicone grease, etc, etc, etc. it will not get any salt creep if I run it a 4 or lower, go to the higher output settings and it starts building creep.

Get something pressure rated if you're going to run high head on it. 11ft vertical + 3-4 feet in the plumbing is wuite a lot.

 

[JohnK]

Danner mag drive pumps may be popular, but they also don't do very well under a lot of head. You'd need a mag12 with 1.5" plumbing to be in that same flow range, (and again, that's assuming that the flow chart is accurate very near the cut off head). http://aquafinatic.com/danner-mag-drive-supreme-water-pump/


For this sort of application I'd be thinking about something like a good old iwaki pressure pump. A 40rlt would easily move the 400gph @ 11', and it would not be nearly as close to it's cut off height.

 

[capecodder]

I've got a sump and protein skimmer pump in my basement as well.
My iwaki 55RLT is the sump return and has been running forever and is still quiet
I had a similar sized little giant to run my skimmer...About 1/2 the price of Iwaki and ran for a good long time but was very loud
I just recently got Pan World 150PS to replace my little giant...and it seems great. Started by some guys from Iwaki. Very quiet but price is more in line with the little giant

 

[wdebenedettojr]

The little giants work well like cape said. When I worked at a LFS we use to always sell the little giant 4's for your applications. The fan to cool the unit internally is loud though.

 

[this is me]

Don't go cheap on return pump. One of the thing you never want to fail on you.
For your requirement, you want to look at a Sicce Syncra 3.5 or 4.0.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Sicce_Sy...arium_Pumps-Sicce_USA-XJ1131-FIWPSBUF-vi.html

 

[JohnK]

Don't go cheap on return pump. One of the thing you never want to fail on you.
For your requirement, you want to look at a Sicce Syncra 3.5 or 4.0.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Sicce_Sy...arium_Pumps-Sicce_USA-XJ1131-FIWPSBUF-vi.html

Nick, am I reading the flow chart right? It looks like those pumps cut out at 12.5' ? OP is working with 11'

 

[JohnK]

On the external pressure pumps;

I've had good experiences with iwaki, panworld, blueline, and mak4. I would describe them as all similar in noise, quality and electricity consumption, except that iwaki makes pumps with cheaper american made motors (WMD) and more expensive japanese motors (MD) with the japanese motor pumps being quieter and a bit longer lived than the others. All of these pumps will last many years, and they all use notably more electricity than the quality submersibles that have been mentioned. It's just tough to pump water up that high without using a lot of juice.

 

[this is me]

John, you're right. The only pump that's suitable is Syncra 5.0. Even that might be too small.
Sorry, I was reading the LPH chart.

 

[reef87]

I will look into iwaki, panworld, blueline, mak4 and Syncra 5.0.
just for curiosity, how to tell that the pump is pressure rated when looking at their product specifications online? just so I dont end up buying the wrong pump.
thanking in advance for all of the inputs.

for example 1:
Iwaki MD-40RXT has 1344 GPH and 15.4 ft max head lost and
Iwaki MD-40 RT has 822 GPH and 21.3 max head lost?


example #2
Iwaki WMD-40RLT has 822gph and 21.3 ft max head lost and
Iwaki WMD-40RLXT has 1344 GPH and max head lost is 15.4


so in these example cases which is the pressure rated and which is not pressure rated?

I do not understand why one one has more flow but less in head lost and the other has less flow but higher head lost.

 

[JohnK]

You should google the "flow chart" for whatever pumps you are looking at. You line up the feet of head pressure with the appropriate line and the graph should tell you the expected GPH at that head.

For example, this isn't in graph format so it's that much easier to follow, but it's the same idea;
http://aquafinatic.com/danner-mag-drive-supreme-water-pump/

Going by that, for a random example, a mag18 @13' of head should push about 660gph.

"pressure rated" is a term that some companies use to indicate that a given pump does function well under pressure and tends to slow down less quickly as head increases. There is no concrete and shared definition to refer to, more just a general term.

 

[JohnK]

Here's a regular flow chart for some of the larger iwaki pumps.
http://www.iwakiamerica.com/Literature/MD_WMD/MD5570100.pdf

Note that iwaki goes by GPM insted of GPH so multiply x60 to get GPH.

SO, if you look at the 55 pump's line;
It cuts out at @ 32 feet
it's moving @ 10GPM (600GPH) at 20' of head
and
@ 18 GPM (1080GPH) at 4' of head.

 

[phg1960]

Taken from: http://www.iwakiamerica.com/Literature/MD_WMD/IALT00034_MDBrochure.pdf

 

[ro_nicu]

A 70RZ would be very good example of a pressure rated pump, as the head rises the pressure drops very little. pressure rated pumps on the other hand are known to be a little less efficient.