Plumbing horizontal runs inside an internal wall

[Spudsly]

I am in the middle of a basement remodel where I'm planning to put a large tank. I want to run my drains and return behind a wall about 15 horizontal feet to my sump which will be in another space. The wall is just framing at the moment, is there anything I should do to prepare the plumbing? The tank and sump don't exist at the moment so I can't plumb them right now, but are there any support structures or anything I should put back there? I feel like 15 feet of unsupported PVC is not going to work.

I appreciate any help. I thought about maybe just putting the pipes back there now, empty, fastened with whatever people use but I'm not sure I'd it messes with insulation or anything like that.

 

[Reefried]

Wouldn’t the pipes run through the studs? You shouldn’t need any supports except for where they enter and exit the wall maybe?

 

[Spudsly]

So there's about a foot behind the studs of open space. I just worried about both sagging and stress on joints from that.

 

[Chris.sturgis]

Pictures would help. Typically in a basement for newer build anyways the walls in the basement are not load bearing so drilling holes in the wall would not be an issue. A basement typically has load bearing beams that are supported by lally columns. It is common practice for plumbers to drill holes through studs to run drain and vent lines.

 

[Spudsly]

Ah sorry to be confusing, here's a picture hopefully it helps. There are lally columns that are kind of "encased" by the framing (though they poke out maybe 1/4 inch behind). There is space between the other finished wall (where you see the insulation) and the new frame where I'd like to run the pipes. There will be an access door just to this space to the right of the central air unit you see there. Also under the stairs will be unfinished so I'll have access there. I've put some debatably helpful red arrows and lines to show the intended plumbing path. The thing I started to kind of freak out about is if I want to do something back there that involves attaching piping to the fame or something, I should do it now.

 

[Chris.sturgis]

That will be a nice fish room. Every few feet I would just secure the pipe to the wall or get some blocks that go to the floor since over time the pipe will sag if not supported. I would also make sure the tank doesn’t restrict access to that air handler unit and condensate pump.

 

[Spudsly]

Ok cool. I was thinking maybe I'd try to build a little wooden "guide" ramp or something and slide it behind there to support the pipes. I think this is something I could do even after they are done finishing the walls. I originally only thought about using some connectors or something to the studs which I wouldn't be able to do when the boards go up but that feels like a worse solution at this point.

Yeah the tank would totally block that door. I actually realized that the other day and luckily it's not too much work for them to move the door around the corner just to the right there so we should be all good on that.

 

[PSU4ME]

I did mine through the studs but with space behind, you can just add some of those “J” pipe hangers every 3-4’ without issue.

 

[Spudsly]

If I do it this way I'll need to put those hangers up now, right? I can't imagine that's an easy task after finish. I guess that was what suddenly struck me... it's 5 total pipes (3 drain, two return) which I don't yet know the diameter of and I don't know the exact height at either end.

Would it be smart to just hang a really big J-hook (4 inch I guess?) in approximately the right place on each stud and try to run all the pipes down that after finish? I guess I know the approximate height I want it to enter and exit at.

 

[Cooper2]

This is a little out of the box, but your idea of ramp isn't one I'd dismiss quickly. J hooks are a great idea until you realize how many pipes you want to run and how limited your access will be once your walls are finished. So here's what I'd do....... install 2 runs of cheap vinyl rain gutter for ALL your pipes to lay in. You would be able to extract any of the pipes by simply sliding them out your repositioned door. If you use J hooks you'll either fight like hell to get them out or back in. The second gutter would be great for wiring or anything you want to add or modify later. Anything going through that wall needs to side and be removable in my opinion. If you want to take a ride to Foxboro I'll give you the materials I have from a remodel. Got the gutters and the mounts to secure them to the studs. Best of luck!

 

[Cooper2]

Just realized if you ever sprung a leak at a joint and had them run in gutters as I suggested, the leak would be diverted out from between your walls.......

"If it can happen, it will"......lol

 

[Spudsly]

Great point. I considered that but having never installed gutters I thought they might be too flimsy. I was considering bolting like a 4" PVC pipe to the wall and putting them all in that. However I just went to the hardware store and I think you are right. The vinyl gutter would be perfect

 

[Cooper2]

I replaced my Home Depot vinyl gutters with seamless ones years ago. I saved the cheesy vinyl ones for a cabin on a river in Vermont that I'll never get to....lol
Got everything you need for a rain gutter conduit trough in Foxboro. It's yours if you want it. I travel for work and home on weekends. Not looking for any cash from members, so spend the $20.00 to join BRS and the gutters are yours for free.

 

[Reefried]

Having that space available you could easily run the pipes stacked on top of one another, and just use the quick latch pipe hangers. Do it now and just stub the pipes out of the wall longer than they need to be. They can board around the poke outs.

I would just go ahead and run three 1.5” drains and two 3/4” returns while the walls are open. You could even just run plain white behind the wall and change to the color you want before it pokes out. You could also leak test the section of pipe that will be in wall by capping one end of the pipe (cutting cap off later) and turning the other end up with a few 90 degree fittings and fill with water for a couple of days to test.

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

Question I have is what size tank and drain do you plan on utilizing. Have a look at this chart via a Reef 2 Reef post. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/opinions-on-using-1-2-drains-with-bean-animal-overflow.687570/

 

[Spudsly]

So I planned three drains, bean animal style and two returns. Tank will be 6x3x2 likely. I looked up tsunami which says 1 inch drains and 3/4 returns but I guess the drains could be as much as 1.5. maybe.

 

[Chris.sturgis]

With the run that you have I would recommend upsizing more than 3/4 for the return. Every 90 and foot of pipe results in flow restriction.

 

[Spudsly]

Ok so two small but related issues. The ally columns stick out further than I thought. I guess I need to find some wood shims or something to attach the gutters to the studs or is there a better way to do it?

The second issue. The null space gets smaller about 1.5 feet before the stairwell and the ally columns deflection ends up squeezing the gutter a ton. I think I'm going to just stop the gutter where the space thins. It should be enough support especially since I can support at the end point when it reaches the stairs. The one thing I'm not sure of is how to route any leaked water out of the wall at the end of the gutter... Ideally I would have had the gutter end in a bucket with an apex leak detection unit but not sure how to do it now... Maybe with a tarp or something attached to the end of the gutter.

 

[Spaceman]

I hate to say it but your way over thinking this. There should not be a leak in your wall ever and planning for it is over kill. Personally I wouod run 3 1.5 pipes and 1or 2 1inch with all separate hangers and have it all installed before drywall. Also the height of the tankn is gonna play a part yoy don't want water dropping 3feet behind the tank you will hear it..

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

You could run spa flex and call it a day, just leave yourself enough on the tank and sump ends for connecting to the sump and tank. As mentioned above, just hang some pipe and call it a day