Plumbing horizontal runs inside an internal wall

[Spudsly]

I hate to say it but your way over thinking this. There should not be a leak in your wall ever and planning for it is over kill. Personally I wouod run 3 1.5 pipes and 1or 2 1inch with all separate hangers and have it all installed before drywall. Also the height of the tankn is gonna play a part yoy don't want water dropping 3feet behind the tank you will hear it..

Thanks for your thoughts on this. Maybe this is a good choice and then I can just lay like a plastic tarp in that space that tilts down a little or I can even just kind of put the gutter on the ground and tilt it towards the stairs that way. I know it's unlikely to leak but the prospect for damage is so great that if I can do something to protect my house, I'd feel better.

If I run J-hooks can I put multiple pipes per hook? I feel like having 5 hooks up and down the wall would get very crowded.

The height of the stand definitely will play a role. I figure most stands are 36-40 inches. I'm planning on building it (despite being an extraordinarily sh!*** handyman) so I will control this. Tank is 24 inches high and so I figure if it comes out of the wall ~40 inches high the worst it can be is like a foot or foot and a half drop. I also figure that since most of the water will be draining through an open syphon, the drop will be less problematic.

You could run spa flex and call it a day, just leave yourself enough on the tank and sump ends for connecting to the sump and tank. As mentioned above, just hang some pipe and call it a day

my fear with spaflex was that I do have mice in the basement frequently. I don't know if they can get through spaflex but it does concern me. Last time I set up a big tank (10 years ago at this point I guess) I had a lot of trouble finding spaflex in standard sizes. All the local pool/spa companies were no help. Is this what you would use: https://www.amazon.com/Diameter-Fle...ref=ci_mcx_psdc_1272988011_t2_B0765DRJ5R?th=1

 

[BiGGiePauls33]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. Maybe this is a good choice and then I can just lay like a plastic tarp in that space that tilts down a little or I can even just kind of put the gutter on the ground and tilt it towards the stairs that way. I know it's unlikely to leak but the prospect for damage is so great that if I can do something to protect my house, I'd feel better.

If I run J-hooks can I put multiple pipes per hook? I feel like having 5 hooks up and down the wall would get very crowded.

The height of the stand definitely will play a role. I figure most stands are 36-40 inches. I'm planning on building it (despite being an extraordinarily sh!*** handyman) so I will control this. Tank is 24 inches high and so I figure if it comes out of the wall ~40 inches high the worst it can be is like a foot or foot and a half drop. I also figure that since most of the water will be draining through an open syphon, the drop will be less problematic.



my fear with spaflex was that I do have mice in the basement frequently. I don't know if they can get through spaflex but it does concern me. Last time I set up a big tank (10 years ago at this point I guess) I had a lot of trouble finding spaflex in standard sizes. All the local pool/spa companies were no help. Is this what you would use: https://www.amazon.com/Diameter-Fle...ref=ci_mcx_psdc_1272988011_t2_B0765DRJ5R?th=1

Looks like spa flex to me

 

[Cpage101]

The ideal slope of any drain line is ¼ inch per foot of pipe back to your sump. SO figure where you want to be at the sump and work your way back to the tank rising up 1" for every foot on the drain line. Return can be level or pitched 1/8" back towards sump so this will drain any water back to the sump when off. I would create framing cantilever shelfs behind the main wall framing every 3' and run your pipes on them. Would not hurt to wrap in some kind of insulation too. Easy Peasy.

 

[Spudsly]

So is it a mistake to do it this way where I just run all three drains on the same large hook? I'm considering going to buy ones that fit the pipe more precisely and just lining them up the wall but I worried about how much space that would take.... I guess as long as the hooks for each pipe are staggered on different studs it wouldnt take too much space.

 

[Spudsly]

The ideal slope of any drain line is ¼ inch per foot of pipe back to your sump. SO figure where you want to be at the sump and work your way back to the tank rising up 1" for every foot on the drain line. Return can be level or pitched 1/8" back towards sump so this will drain any water back to the sump when off. I would create framing cantilever shelfs behind the main wall framing every 3' and run your pipes on them. Would not hurt to wrap in some kind of insulation too. Easy Peasy.

So 1/4 inch per foot or 1 inch per foot?

Right now it drops 4 inches over 10 feet so like nearly 2/5 inch per foot.

 

[Zeefishies]

So is it a mistake to do it this way where I just run all three drains on the same large hook? I'm considering going to buy ones that fit the pipe more precisely and just lining them up the wall but I worried about how much space that would take.... I guess as long as the hooks for each pipe are staggered on different studs it wouldnt take too much space.

go to home depot, these are for electrical pipes , they are plastic separate all 3 pipes
Its going to stick out about 1 1/2" or so, that way if u need to adjust the pipe hight it will be easier. Start at the sump

 

[Spudsly]

Ok cool so then I'll just use those to have them line up and down the stud 3 drains then 2 returns. The exit from the wall will be at approximately 30 inches which I think should be ok for most setups

 

[Cooper2]

So 1/4 inch per foot or 1 inch per foot?

Right now it drops 4 inches over 10 feet so like nearly 2/5 inch per foot.

1" pitch per foot is excessive and incorrect. If you have a 4" drop over a 10' span you will be fine.

 

[Cpage101]

So 1/4 inch per foot or 1 inch per foot?

Right now it drops 4 inches over 10 feet so like nearly 2/5 inch per foot.

1” per 4’

 

[Spaceman]

Please becare of the drop behind the tank it will make noise if it's a large drop.

 

[Cpage101]

Please becare of the drop behind the tank it will make noise if it's a large drop.

use 2 45’s instead of a 90 fitting this will help also

 

[Spudsly]

Ok so a modest level of progress. Drain lines are in. Is there a reasonable way to test if they are water tight? I had to join two straight pipes with a coupling which sounds very easy but still I wouldn't mind just checking before the boards go up. Can I cap the ends and fill they with water or something?

 

[Reefried]

Like I said before you can glue a cap on one end and use a 90 on the other end, put a 18” piece of pipe pointing up and fill with water.

Also these clips may be better than the j hooks.

 

[Spudsly]

Ok the cap idea is good. I'm not sure I understand the point of the 18" piece of pipe, is that just so I can fill the pipe I'm trying to test? I reread your comment and the rest is clear to me now.

I ended up doing mostly J-hooks because I ended up needing the buffer they give in the back to get the pipes away from the columns. Perhaps those you posted also have enough lateral displacement to do that though. Do they sell those at home depot? I didn't see them.

 

[Cpage101]

@Spudsly the 18” piece turned up is so you can fully fill the pipe with water and have a little water pressure weight in the pipe longer the pipe the more water pressure in the line is how I understand it.

 

[Cooper2]

@Spudsly the 18” piece turned up is so you can fully fill the pipe with water and have a little water pressure weight in the pipe longer the pipe the more water pressure in the line is how I understand it.

This concept is correct. If we were plumbing an entire house under new construction, "test caps" are glued in place and a hose is used to fill the entire drain system until it comes out the vent stack on the roof. Some folks used compressed air and an inflatable test plug but concept is the same. The 18" pipe actually creates additional pressure for testing. If it was 36" of pipe there would just be slightly higher pressure.... the vertical run is for testing and has no place in the completed system.

 

[Spudsly]

Ooh, pipe of the same diameter. I don't know why but I was picturing putting a smaller 18" pipe inside the bigger one and having it stick out somehow. I kept getting confused why if you tried to fill up the 18" segment above the elbow you wouldn't just have water spill out the big pipe. I gotcha now. I guess I will also need to glue that piece though... I guess I should have left myself more length of the pipes for cuts down the road.

 

[Spudsly]

Question for all of you more knowledgeable than me. I just realized that the 1.5" couplings I used are dwv. I realize that the d is for drain and these are indeed drains but I'm not sure this is the same thing. Should I worry about this?

Second bit of excitement, I came home to find the wall with the pipes buried in insulation. I think this wall was supposed to have no more insulation but I think I can still reach everything.

 

[Reefried]

Ooh, pipe of the same diameter. I don't know why but I was picturing putting a smaller 18" pipe inside the bigger one and having it stick out somehow. I kept getting confused why if you tried to fill up the 18" segment above the elbow you wouldn't just have water spill out the big pipe. I gotcha now. I guess I will also need to glue that piece though... I guess I should have left myself more length of the pipes for cuts down the road.

Yes the above comments are correct regarding a leak test. Yes the cap and the 90 plus the 18” piece of pipe will have to be glued. Ideally you should run all the pipe you need. Then have all the pipes stub out of the wall on both ends. You should stub them out much longer than you will need and cut them back later. Let’s say you think you will need about 6” of pipe sticking out of wall after Sheetrock. Then make the stubs 12”. Cap one end then put 90’s on the other end and turn them up vertically. Add the 18” gunners and glue. Wait a day and leak test. Let the water sit in the pipes for 24 hours or so and check for leaks. If all is good then let them Sheetrock. Then when it comes time you can cut the pipes down to finish plumbing to display and sump.


You should remove that insulation so you can perform in wall leak test. You want to be able to see the leak/check every coupling that will be inside the wall.

 

[Cpage101]

Question for all of you more knowledgeable than me. I just realized that the 1.5" couplings I used are dwv. I realize that the d is for drain and these are indeed drains but I'm not sure this is the same thing. Should I worry about this?

Second bit of excitement, I came home to find the wall with the pipes buried in insulation. I think this wall was supposed to have no more insulation but I think I can still reach everything.

outside discussed items above. Did they they install a plastic vapor barrier on the exterior side of the wall behind the insulation against concrete (not sure if done) just a thought here now but if any cold gets into this void in the winter with the warm tank water it is going to cause condensation on the pipes possibly if temp difference which could lead to a possible mold issue from possible condensation buildup. also I am not a carpenter here is fiber insulation good for use against foundation wall in your case? Not sure of your particular situation, but concrete is porous and moisture could wick into the insulation (possibly also causing mold). learned this from pst experience at least on the exterior walls part.

https://krakenbond.net/blogs/insulation/insulating-concrete-walls-the-ultimate-guide#:~:text=Concrete%20walls%20are%20porous%20and,for%20mold%20growth%20and%20mildew.