Tank Problems Go Figure!

[meemoo]

Of course right before I have to leave for the weekend my tank starts having problems. I'm sure this has happened to a few of you . I have had my hospital tank set up for two weeks now with no problems and yesterday I did some params. SG= 1.025 Ph= 8.0 Ammonia=0 few but nitrites= .2 so did a 5% water change. Now today Ammonia=0 Nitrite=.4 and Nitrates= 10. What do I do? Change out all the water. Help is there any other way to lower these. I don't want to come back and have my daughter see Nemo floating.

 

[~Flighty~]

could you tell us a little more about the hospital setup?

 

[meemoo]

Sure, its a 10g started with water from my 55g tank. I have a hang on filter. There are two juvenile clowns and a scooter blenny in there.

 

[~Flighty~]

Was the hang on filte running on an established tank before you ran it on this one? What I'm getting at is, did it have a chance toestablish the benificial bacteria before you put the fish in the qt with it.

 

[meemoo]

no I was told that if I took some water from my main tank it would have some bacteria in it and that to do regular water changes with that water and keep and eye on my ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels.

 

[SHOmuchFUN]

Yep, you need some sort of biological filtration in the setup to process the fish waste... If the filter wasn't on the system for long, or you took it off your old system for a while and added it to the hospital setup, the filter itself can cause the cycle of a tank.

Just a few ideas.

 

[meemoo]

It was a brand new filter. So my hospital tank is starting to cycle? Bad, bad very bad

 

[Aquadiva]

Are you medicating the fish in the hospital tank, or is this more of a quarantine situation at the moment? If you are just quarantining, you may be able to just use a small piece of LR in there. It will help with the biological filtration.....in this case, what I would do, is change out 5 gallons with water from the 55, and put a small piece of LR in there.....

If you are medicating...most medications will kill off the biological filtration anyway.. what I did, was to chang out 2 gallons of water each day and feed lightly. Siphon out any uneaten food to keep the ammonia down. Test often, too. Hope this helps.

 

[SHOmuchFUN]

You could always throw a few of those BIO-stars in your sump if you ever need to do something like this again. Then you can run the stars in your mechanical filter for biologic filtration.

I wouldn't use LR though, because if this is a hospital tank, one of the purposes for the quarantine is to make sure whatever disease is not transmitted onto livestock in the display. Things like Ich can attach and lay dormant in LR.

 

[~Flighty~]

Well, not too bad.
remember, the organics break into ammonia then ammonia to nitrate then nitrate to nitrite.
all of the amonia in this situation is comming frome fish poop and uneaten food. you can keep it under control by making sure you don't overfeed and siphening out any poop or extra food. There will still be some ammonia that gets into the water, but you can dilute this with water changes. A biologically active filterpad would just help out by breaking down some of the amonia and nitrates for you. You still have to controll the nitrite with water changes, but of the three it is the least harmfull to a fish.

Edit: I type too slow.

 

[meemoo]

The fish are in there cause they had Ich, but I have not had to add any medications because the trophants fell off them before I moved them over to the hospital tank and they have not shown any signs I having Ich since. So no treatments needed according to my LFS. I have had a hermit in there to help with the dietrus so I could put LR if that's OK. They have only been in there for a little less than two weeks and I was told that they had to be out of the main tank for 4 to be sure.

 

[Aquadiva]

If this is he case.....do not use the water in the 55 to do the water changes. Ich has that free floating stage, and you could transfer it to the hospital tank. Also, the LR could also harbor the parasite, so do not add this to the hospital tank.

With this added info, I tend to agree with flighty...do a water change...feed lightly....siphon...test often....

Be advised, however, that if you have to treat the hospital tank with any medications, it will probably kill the bio-filtration that is being generated now. So test..test...test...!!

 

[~Flighty~]

**You also could take your chances with the ich. If they weren't badly effected by it it probably isn't a very virulant form and they will probably develope a natural immunity to it. It shouldn't bother a healthy fish too much. I think it is nearly impossible to keep a tank ich free unless you QT everything you put in the tank. If it was me, I would put them back in the display.**

**Just one person's opinion, YMMV

 

[meemoo]

Thank you for all your suggestions. What confuses me is that when I read up on Ich is that after the parasite falls off the fish it seems as if there is only 4 days before it can find a fish and if it doesn't then it dies or becomes dormant. So why are you suppossed to wait 4 weeks before reintroducing fish back into the infected tank?

 

[Aquadiva]

actually, the ICH parasite goes through many phases....I have found this to be the easiest read (and accurate) on the subject.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

 

[JohnK]

From what you described it sounds like the tank just finished cycling. In a sterile tank ammonia builds up, then one bacteria gets established and the ammonia breaks down to nitrite, then the second bacteria gets established and you see nitrate. If youve seen nitrite, and now nitrate then the cycle has basically run it's course and the fish ought to be ok, nitrate won't hurt them.

My only concern is that it sounds like the nitrate went from 0 to 10ppm overnight after doing a water change. I would check the source water and be sure it isn't the source of the nitrate. Assuming the nitrate is being produced in the tank you should be ok. Another water change wouldn't hurt but don't do it in such a hurry that you don't have the chance to mix and aerate the new water properly.

("What confuses me is that when I read up on Ich is that after the parasite falls off the fish it seems as if there is only 4 days before it can find a fish and if it doesn't then it dies or becomes dormant. So why are you suppossed to wait 4 weeks before reintroducing fish back into the infected tank?")

I don't remember the correct terms but there are 3 stages. On fish, dropped cysts, free floating looking for a fish to latch onto. The dropped cysts can lie dormant for 4-6 weeks or possibly more. once they hatch out, the free floating stage is a few days then they die if they don't find a host. That's why the display needs to be fishless for 6-8 weeks. The cysts can hatch out in a few days or over a month.

Also keep in mind that Ick treatment is a commonly debated subject. Some people argue that it's at least dormant in most tanks and can't truely be eradicated (take this as saying that the cysts can lie dormant for far longer than 6 weeks). Others argue that it can be eradicated if treated properly. Personally I just finished an 8 week quarentine and hypo treatment. Fish have been back in the display for about a month. I saw what could have been a couple of spots on my tang a day or two ago. If I am seeing a reinfection I'm pissed, and a bit more inclined to believe that Ick can lie dormant for longer than 8 weeks.

 

[scavdog]

the organics break into ammonia then ammonia to nitrate then nitrate to nitrite.

Just to clarify: Ammonia --> Nitrite ---> Nitrate

 

[~Flighty~]

Just to clarify: Ammonia --> Nitrite ---> Nitrate

Why do I always get that backwards? They should change it to the way I say it.

 

[meemoo]

There is definately alot of conflicting info regarding Ich. Make deciding what to do torture. It's like your d *if you do d * if you don't.

 

[Triggerfish]

What confuses me is that when I read up on Ich is that after the parasite falls off the fish it seems as if there is only 4 days before it can find a fish and if it doesn't then it dies or becomes dormant. So why are you suppossed to wait 4 weeks before reintroducing fish back into the infected tank?

the link that Aquadiva provided is very good at outlining the basics regarding the parasite.

ideally you would want to leave your infected display fishless for 6 weeks. once the parasite falls off the host it becomes encysted for up to 28 days. from there it will release hundreds of free swimming tomites looking for another host.