dz6t
Acro Garden, BRS Sponsor
You are welcome.
With more research available for this hobby, now we are looking at phosphate differently these days.
Alk swings with all for reef
- Thread starter new2saltyfish
- Start date
With more research available for this hobby, now we are looking at phosphate differently these days.
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new2saltyfish
Non-member
What would you say is an ideal range for phosphates?
dz6t
Acro Garden, BRS Sponsor
Phosphate level range can be from barely detectable to 1 ppm.
Just make sure you have around 5 to 10 ppm of nitrate so that phosphate can be consumed by coral and their symbiotic algae.
On the skin of coral, there are phosphate and nitrate transporters to grab them inside coral to feed their symbiotic algae. Any method that reduce phosphate to starve hair algae, such as GFO, will starve the symbiotic algae inside coral and leads to reduction of coral growth. The current understanding of controlling unwanted algae is to use critters and fish to eat it, also another method is to load the tank with coral to out compete algae.
Just make sure you have around 5 to 10 ppm of nitrate so that phosphate can be consumed by coral and their symbiotic algae.
On the skin of coral, there are phosphate and nitrate transporters to grab them inside coral to feed their symbiotic algae. Any method that reduce phosphate to starve hair algae, such as GFO, will starve the symbiotic algae inside coral and leads to reduction of coral growth. The current understanding of controlling unwanted algae is to use critters and fish to eat it, also another method is to load the tank with coral to out compete algae.
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new2saltyfish
Non-member
thank you very much, I appreciate it. Going to try my hand at a chaeto reactor and see if that can tame some of the algae. Nitrates currently at 10.
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new2saltyfish
Non-member
Just to update, i’ve been testing my alk a few times daily with a hanna checker and it seems my little tank drops from 8 to 7.3dkh per day. That seems like a lot to me since i’ve heard people say, and have read online, that bi weekly water changes alone for a tank my size should keep the dkh stable. Does this sound normal? There is no clam or anything in the tank. Wonder if the fact that there are sps in a 5 gallon tank is causing that drop.
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chadfish
Well-Known Member
Seems normal. Alk will be higher at night and lower mid-day. Always test near/at the same time of day for good day-to-day comparison
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new2saltyfish
Non-member
That’s what I’ve been doing. Usually around 6pm. If it’s usually lower mid day do you compensate with your dosing schedule? I have a kamoer x1 which allows me to dose up to 12x per day so wondering if i should do 8vs 12 and dose more in mid day.
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new2saltyfish
Non-member
So, retested tonight after bringing up my alk to 8.0dkh this am and it is down to 6.9. I think the difference is the auto top off ran today and yesterday it didn’t which made me think…with a tank this small, should i be regulating my auto top off ro/di water to a dkh of 8, ca 450 etc? Should i just dose it with red sea parts A and B? Kalk?
DylanCameron
Treasurer/BOD 2023
Pure RO/DI (0 TDS) has a dKH of 0 because it should be pure fresh water, but it’s not going to bring your tank dKH down significantly because as water evaporates, the minerals stay in the water and only pure H20 leaves. So in actuality, you alkalinity will increase *slightly* as water evaporates, because the remaining water becomes slightly more salty. When you top of with RO/DI and your salinity returns to the previous level, the slight increase in alkalinity is reversed.
Think of dKH as buffer/volume. Buffer encompasses things like carbonate and bicarbonate, which remain in the tank as water evaporates. Fresh water evaporates, so your buffer stays the same, but volume decreases slightly. Adding fresh H20 does not add buffer, it just slightly increases water volume to where it was before.
To answer your question, you can add kalk powder to your ATO, though myself and many others prefer to keep the kalk and top-off water separate so you can fine-tune dosing, avoid potential mishaps with the ATO, and avoid overdosing (especially in such a small tank). You should not mix Red Sea A/B because they will precipitate in solution, unlike kalk.
Remember that any loss in dKH should be attributed to coral growth and (to a lesser extent) pH maintenance, not top-off (unless you were to add so much fresh water that your salinity decreases)
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new2saltyfish
Non-member
Yea, tested it to make sure. My alk/ca were both 0 on my ro/di. I think I'm understanding what you are saying. But, on a small tank when my top off runs and decreases alk at least briefly before the water evaporates again wouldn't that cause an alk swing that could be significant? Wouldn't adding a water with 0dkh dilute the 8dkh a fair amount? So bringing up the dkh and ca in the top off to 8dk and 450ca with the A and B is a no no because they will precipitate and form a solid?
When my top off runs, it probably brings up the water level a half inch of so which I would guess is 1/4-1/3 gallon. I think What I need to do is test my salinity before and after the top off runs and also test the DKH before and after the top off runs...
Or am I overcomplicating this?
DylanCameron
Treasurer/BOD 2023
It will cause a slight swing, like you said the only way to know wold be to test salinity/alk before and after the top-off runs. Generally the fresh water is such a small addition it's not going to dilute the alkalinity a noticeable amount, but 5gals is such a small volume any addition is going to have a larger effect than most tanks. It's important to think of this more as a salinity problem than an alkalinity problem, because you want to minimize that salinity swing that's causing the alk swing, if that makes sense.
Bringing your top-off water to those levels will certainly cause precipitation. Kalk does not cause that precipitation because it's a different chemical than a two-part solution. If your top-off is actually dumping that much water in when it runs you definitely want to avoid putting kalk straight into your top-off, as you'll get a large pH increase. I remember your thread about boosting pH a while ago, so setting up kalk on a dosing pump might be a good way to address that.
Is there a way to minimize the time the top-off runs? Is there a back chamber you could move the sensor to? Edit: What model tank do you have? I saw a picture in your build thread but didn't see an actual name
Bringing your top-off water to those levels will certainly cause precipitation. Kalk does not cause that precipitation because it's a different chemical than a two-part solution. If your top-off is actually dumping that much water in when it runs you definitely want to avoid putting kalk straight into your top-off, as you'll get a large pH increase. I remember your thread about boosting pH a while ago, so setting up kalk on a dosing pump might be a good way to address that.
Is there a way to minimize the time the top-off runs? Is there a back chamber you could move the sensor to? Edit: What model tank do you have? I saw a picture in your build thread but didn't see an actual name
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new2saltyfish
Non-member
Thanks for all that info! I appreciate it. It's a top fin 5 gallon aio. The top off was off of amazon, I think I paid around $65. There is no way to adjust the sensor digitally anyways. I'll have to see if it fits in the back chamber as that may minimized how much is added and at what time. Right now it is in the main display part of the tank and I would say that the difference between when the water level goes low enough for it to kick on to when it stops is probably about a half inch of top off water
DylanCameron
Treasurer/BOD 2023
Just looked up the tank and watched some reviews, seems there's no dividers in the back, and since there filter opening is on the bottom of the tank it's not going to make a difference moving the sensor to the back chamber as the water level is going to be the same in both
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new2saltyfish
Non-member
Yea, wish i shopped around for a tank a little better but the dimensions were good. I’ll be moving in 2 years and then 2 years after that so can’t have anything too permanent hence the small size
chadfish
Well-Known Member
I do compensate with dosing a little. I dose mostly during lighting hours with a few more mls during midday. I don’t have an Apex so I don’t know for sure what kind of stability this affords.
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new2saltyfish
Non-member
Just checked dkh before and after top off. Before it was 8, after 7.6. I feel like that’s a decent drop. Wonder if that will make it impossible to keep any acros
coralfishreef
Well-Known Member
That small amount of change won’t be a problem.
