Are BRS members generally AEFW free?

[reefsmurf]

Are there any good articles written up on all the various dipping solutions (freshwater/hyposaline, iodine, intercepter, etc etc)?

 

[Greg Hiller]

> I heard anectodal accounts of wrasses being "trained" to pick the AEFWs off of the colonies <

When Mike Paletta was here he described that he does this. Brings in new wrasses, gets them healthy, then makes 'em a bit hungry and puts in an infected colony. Blows the flatworms off initially, and then the wrasses learn pretty fast to go directly to the source and pick them off the colony. This is not a cure, they will always have the flatworms in their system, it is only a control. He also found that if he feeds the fish too much in his main system they get lazy and don't control the flatworms as well.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Qt

Yes, my QT is up an running 24/7 in my fishroom. However, during the periods of time where it is empty of corals, I decrease the photoperiod to save electricity. I have a small heater and a fan to control temperature along with a small window A/C that cools the whole fishroom when I need to. I do large weekly water changes using water from my main system. Alkalinity and Calcium replenishment are done via the large (%50) water changes and via dosing if needed. However, since there is not a large amount of corals in there at any one time, the need for Ca and Alk supplementation is nil. I also run a RedSea Prizm HOB skimmer. Again, since there is only 1 fish in the system right now, a high capacity skimmer is not needed. In fact I had the opposite problem when I set up the QT - The system was too sterile and needed more biomass to sustain the bilogical filtration of the LR in the sump. For a while, I could not keep anything alive in the QT due to the lack of nutrients. Now I have a "canary" frag in there from my main system that I just leave in there. So far it has been in the system for 2 months and it still looks good. The idea is that if anything goes wrong this "canary" frag it will alert me so I can take steps to remedy the situation before adding a new batch of frags.

This independent and permanent QT system is the best thing I have done. I don't have to hurry and place new corals into my display. I have more time to do Iodine (TMPCC) dips (external to QT) and to treat the colonies with Interceptor (in the QT) instead of rushing to get everything done. Lastly, I can observe the new frags over a long period of time before placing them into the main system which, together with the dips and Interceptor, dramatically reduces the risk of introducing bad things into my display system.

Also, because I can be an impulsive buyer, this protocol acts to slow me down as far as aquiring new frags. It takes out some of the joy of buying something I see for the first time, but it also reduces the risk of introducing coral predators which REALLY takes out the joy of the hobby for me.

Here are the system components:

40 gallon long AGA tank
150 watt AquaVia heater
Red Sea Prizm HOB skimmer
4 small powerheads for circulation (various cheap brands pointed at the front glass for water flow dispersion)
Pan World 50PX main pump
DIY Rubbermaid Container 50 gallon sump
Live Rock removed from main system (around 25-50 pounds)
175W DE MH Pendant Lighting System
Live sand from a fellow reefer (just a small baggie poured into sump)
Aquamedic temperature controller (Controls heater and fan)
PVC pipes and fittings
Eggcrate to hold frags

Thanks Chuck. That makes sense. No one wants to advertise that they've got these pests if they ever want people to trust their stock, etc. But it's the scrupulous thing to do. So is your QT system up and running 24/7 all year long?

 

[Reefried]

Chuck I'm currious to what % of the frags that go through the quarantine process, actually survive?, and or lose color?

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Frags

Now that the QT system is in steady state, the survival rate is close to 100%Of course there are those few frags I get that do not make it. But I can't be sure it is due to the QT system since I get lots of frags via FEDEX. Basically, if the "canary" frag is doing well, then I assume that generally things are OK in the system. I also drip acclimate all incoming frags for 1/2 an hour to an hour to ease the transition from one set of water parameters to another.

However, before the QT was mature I lost lots of frags (90%). I think adding the damsels and feeding daily did the trick as far as kickstarting the desired biological activity. I also took Greg Hiller's advice and added a small amount of live sand to the sump. This may have helped to better diversify the bacterial strains present in the system.

As far as losing color, all of the frags tend to lose some color since the lighting I provide is probably not enough to keep them colored up. I use reduced lighting photoperiods to keep the water from overheating and to keep the electrical costs down. But I'm sure you could use a longer photoperiod, stronger lighting, and/or smaller distance from water level to lamp and reduce color loss.

When I place them into the display system, I put them on a piece of eggcrate that is fastened to cleaning magnets via cable ties. Then I start them out at the bottom of the tank and slowly move them up closer to the lights. Finally when the frags are at or above my rockwork, I glue them down on the rock.

Chuck I'm currious to what % of the frags that go through the quarantine process, actually survive?, and or lose color?

 

[Reefried]

Thanks Chuck....yeah I wish I had the room for a quarantine system, so I have to rely on my initial dips to work and so far they have. Also I have no problem with tossing a frag that looks even somewhat shaddy, its just not worth it. I have had good luck with betadine, that stuff is harsh and the corals deffinitly dont like it, but neither do the pests thats why i like it!!

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

Betadine

Yes, I had the same experience with Betadine. For some reason the TMPCC doesn't affect the corals much. Maybe it is just the dose vs the brand of iodine ???

Thanks Chuck....yeah I wish I had the room for a quarantine system, so I have to rely on my initial dips to work and so far they have. Also I have no problem with tossing a frag that looks even somewhat shaddy, its just not worth it. I have had good luck with betadine, that stuff is harsh and the corals deffinitly dont like it, but neither do the pests thats why i like it!!

 

[Aquaman_68]

Coral baths for all incoming is the way I do it.. been doing it for many years

Paul,

I personally feel there are pros & cons to both methods of quarenteen & long baths in interceptor & levamisole... (& other dips of choice) Betadine is very strong & it will kill many corals in a dip..(hardy ones will fear better)

The most important thing is...If your unsure of the party your getting frags from make sure you don't introduce any rockwork from said reefer.. (that goes for rubble & frag plugs corals are attached to...This prevents you from bringing many different pests into your closed reef. I've been doing this pretty much since the start of my hobby...Even if I like the shape of a peice of LR (newly acquired) I let it go dri...bleach it & soak it in ro/di water for many weeks before letting it dri out & adding it to my system...

The tough one but I never fell into it's grips was when those bali AC small colonies became available like 5 plus years ago...


They would be fully encrusted on the plugs....If I got one I snapped it off the plug before the dip....(& any dead coral areas as well) You only want to introduce corals completely with flesh even if you snap it from the base..... The AEFW only lay eggs on dead coral skeleton, rock & rubble. They do not lay eggs on live tissue!!

Thank god I was doing that back then though I only got a few Bali AC back then....The bali AC frags are said to be the culprit to the AEFW infestation as of late....(they've had them in Germany for over ten years or better) We only started to see them become a problem in the states about 6 years ago!!!

Thanks to all the reading on RC I was educated to them before we even saw them in the states!!!


If anyone wants to know my dipping procedure go here:

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14143&highlight=interceptor+levamisole


It's a little bit of a read but it is informative...

The only thing I've added to my dipping is a quick 15 min dip in Tropic Marin Pro coral cure after the 6 hour bath...followed by a few 15 min dips in regular tank water before introducing it into the system...(this helps to flush the meds off the coral tissue!!)

HTH...
B

 

[paulthomas]

Sounds pretty extensive... If you're having no problems in that Acro forest of yours , then I'll be sure to try it. Thanks again Brian.

 

[Liam]

Paul,

I personally feel there are pros & cons to both methods of quarenteen & long baths in interceptor & levamisole... (& other dips of choice) Betadine is very strong & it will kill many corals in a dip..(hardy ones will fear better)

The most important thing is...If your unsure of the party your getting frags from make sure you don't introduce any rockwork from said reefer.. (that goes for rubble & frag plugs corals are attached to...This prevents you from bringing many different pests into your closed reef. I've been doing this pretty much since the start of my hobby...Even if I like the shape of a peice of LR (newly acquired) I let it go dri...bleach it & soak it in ro/di water for many weeks before letting it dri out & adding it to my system...

The tough one but I never fell into it's grips was when those bali AC small colonies became available like 5 plus years ago...


They would be fully encrusted on the plugs....If I got one I snapped it off the plug before the dip....(& any dead coral areas as well) You only want to introduce corals completely with flesh even if you snap it from the base..... The AEFW only lay eggs on dead coral skeleton, rock & rubble. They do not lay eggs on live tissue!!

Thank god I was doing that back then though I only got a few Bali AC back then....The bali AC frags are said to be the culprit to the AEFW infestation as of late....(they've had them in Germany for over ten years or better) We only started to see them become a problem in the states about 6 years ago!!!

Thanks to all the reading on RC I was educated to them before we even saw them in the states!!!


If anyone wants to know my dipping procedure go here:

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14143&highlight=interceptor+levamisole


It's a little bit of a read but it is informative...

The only thing I've added to my dipping is a quick 15 min dip in Tropic Marin Pro coral cure after the 6 hour bath...followed by a few 15 min dips in regular tank water before introducing it into the system...(this helps to flush the meds off the coral tissue!!)

HTH...
B

all good advice,however i have not lost one coral to betadine that i am aware of.
i did lose many to levamisole though,especially deep water acro's

I also witnessed AEFW very much still alive after 5 hours in a dip of levamisole i later saw some disintegrate in under 25 mins over at mauro's so that sold me on betadine and kept me away from levamisole.



I'm not disputing your advice here Brian,just adding my own experiences

 

[MikeG]

I would also include a link to this thread after you have the skimmer body to all parties involved to show them the reputation they got by doing this.

Edit: Don't know how this ended up in the wrong thread, was suppode to be in Paul's BK thread.

 

[paulthomas]

Sounds like fightin' words ta me! Let's lace up them gloves!

 

[paulthomas]

Good idea Mike. We're a small community by comparison (RC), but just as important. I'll be sure to do that.

I'm crossing my fingers that the body arrives in one piece, crack-free.

 

[Aquaman_68]

all good advice,however i have not lost one coral to betadine that i am aware of.
i did lose many to levamisole though,especially deep water acro's

I also witnessed AEFW very much still alive after 5 hours in a dip of levamisole i later saw some disintegrate in under 25 mins over at mauro's so that sold me on betadine and kept me away from levamisole.



I'm not disputing your advice here Brian,just adding my own experiences

the
That's cool, Liam...Maybe it was the dose of betadine people who told me they had problems with that method used..I actually do my levamisole dose a little stronger... I do an 8 gal treatment of poison in a 4 gal vessel of tank water.. Never lost anything until recently....( I suspect that was due to the coral being dipped prior to shipment to me from out west.

I think using air rather than a powerhead makes a huge diference...The meds rob the water of oxygen...

The method I explained I use is very precise...You can't let the coral stand more than 5 hours in the levamisole & six in the interceptor...(even 15 mins
over will make the coral start to rtn)


When this solution was tested with a real live AEFW
I also seen the AEFW turn to dust....

Temp has to be stable & they need oxygen & you can't go over the amount of time recomended...

(with my method...or mitch's method)


It's worked for me all this time....that is why I stick with it....) Both levamisole & interceptor are used at two times the normal dosing amount...

(I'd rather be safe than sorry...losing a coral is better than a tank full of corals......)


There is more ways to skin a cat

If your method works for you & anyone else using betadine.....that is all good.....

 

[Liam]

the air may very well be key with the long dip req with the levamisole.
I only used a powerhead when i used it.

 

[ReeferMedic]

I have also had the same experience, word for word, as Liam has. I use just enough iodine to tint the water a bit. I also don't use an air pump. If I do use anything, it's a small powerhead. Maybe there's something to that air thing Brian. I'd be willing to try it if I hadn't lost or browned out so many frags with levamisole in the past.

 

[Chuck Spyropulos]

all good advice,however i have not lost one coral to betadine that i am aware of.
i did lose many to levamisole though,especially deep water acro's

I also witnessed AEFW very much still alive after 5 hours in a dip of levamisole i later saw some disintegrate in under 25 mins over at mauro's so that sold me on betadine and kept me away from levamisole.



I'm not disputing your advice here Brian,just adding my own experiences

Yes, I agree Liam....Iodine/TMPCC seems to work for me but I lost too many frags to Levamisole so I stopped using it.

I have had really good luck with TMPCC - not one coral lost. Also after my "experience" with AEFWs outlined above I will never again introduce anything into my system before quarantining and repetitive dipping in TMPCC. Although some might think the QT is overkill, I believe it is necessary and that it adds an extra layer of protection against AEFWs and whatever else comes along next. I would rather lose a frag or two (although in steady state operation of my QT I am not losing any frags than risk infection in my display system, no matter how small that risk may be.

 

[delta]

The Air stone is an interesting point I have for the most part always used an air stone until recently where I lost one frag and half of the another one. I was using a small tunze PH.

Not saying anything one way or another because the PH blew one frag into the other and I contributed the lost to that.

Air vs PH might be something to look into a bit more.

 

[Calciumbuf]

Airstone might be a Key, never really thought about it much because I have always used one as my method of water movement, I,ve used Betadine and or Levamisole with great success in the past ( minimal Loss ) but have switched to Coral Revive with great success, I still keep the old standby's around , But Like Aquaman stated above with AEFW it is almost imperative to frag the coral imediately in order to ensure no egg masses get through, also Juvenille worms are very stubborn to get to release hence the necessity to do multibly treatments, I can also confirm that I have never seen an egg mass on living tissue always on dead skeleton or base plugs or rocks, Jim

 

[paulthomas]

Interesting stuff. I'm learning lots.