After meeting with a marine Biologist today and him analizing my tank and water, i found out that my fish all died from a gill desese. my levels were all tested perfect with no copper, chlorine ext. do i have to keep my tank clear of all fish for 3 weeks to let whatever eggs are left in the rank to hatch and then eventually die off because there is no more fish for them to live off of..
Dead Fish Mystery Solved
- Thread starter sdulak
- Start date
naturebatslast
Senior Toad Licker
There's a couple types of gill disease, bacterial and amoebic, one of them is called hamburger gill. Both occur, in fresh and salt water cultured/aquarium fish stocks. The gills are reportedly easy to ID, swollen gill filaments, some white mottling and some with black gills(bacterial).
Here's an abstract I grabbed...
"Abstract
Gross pathological assessment of amoebic gill disease (AGD) is the only non-destructive, financially viable method for rapid and broad-scale disease management of farmed Atlantic salmon, Salmo salar L. , in Tasmania. However, given the presumptive nature of this diagnosis, the technique has been considered questionable. This study investigated the degree of conformity between clinical signs and histological lesions observed in a commercial setting. Three groups of Atlantic salmon (n = 42, 100 and 100, respectively) were collected from various farm sites in southern Tasmania between December 2001 and April 2003. Micro-stereoscopic analysis showed that grossly affected tissue regions correspond to areas of hyperplastic lamellar fusion, generally in association with attached Neoparamoeba sp. Agreement between gross signs of AGD and histopathological diagnosis was compared. Kappa analysis indicated moderate to good agreement between methods (κ = 0.52?0.74). Individual cases of disagreement were further scrutinized and several factors were found to influence the level of agreement between the two methods. Stage of disease development, lesions derived from other pathogens, assessor interpretation/experience, sampling methods, histological technique and/or experience were potential confounding factors. It was concluded that clinical diagnosis is acceptable as a farm-monitoring tool only. Removal of grossly affected tissue and subsequent histological examination is recommended to improve diagnostic accuracy.
Dr M.B. Adams, School of Aquaculture, Aquafin CRC, Tasmanian Aquaculture and Fisheries Institute, Locked Bag 1-370, Launceston, Tasmania 7250, Australia "
I'm curious who diagnosed this for you and how they did it.
we went out to 2 LFS's last night with 2 water samples to see if they both were in agreement with each other. both came back with saying the water tests were all great no copper. alk a tad bit high. after we described what happened to the tang and told them both what he looked, hey both said it def. sounds like gill flukes. rather than using chemicles they both said with there being no fish left in the tank,let the tank sit for 2-3 weeks so what eggs are left in the tank will hatch and die because there is nothing else in the tank for them to live off of.
littlep93056
Non-member
That's great , you got a Marine Biologist to come to your house to analyze your tank & water
Who is this Marine Biologist & what did he charge for doing it ? I think lots of members would love to know , in case they need his or her services
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Are you sure he was being sarcastic? I was thinking of asking the same exact question with no sarcasm intended.
Can you elaborate at all on what he/she looked at to ID the gill disease/fluke? Examination of the dead fish? If so how was it examined?
I second the statement that you may have a valuable resource that others may be interested in.
Personally I've been keeping SW for close to 10 yrs and I've never seen or heard of anyone having gill flukes in the hobby. Maybe the specifics on what you've seen and or what the aquatic biologist saw / looked for to ID the problem.
Sorry about your fish.
Edit, added thought;
BTW, if your going to keep the tank fishless for a few weeks, have you considered giving it a bit longer just to rule out any other possible parisites (ick) and allow time to fully QT any new fish? (keeping the tank fishless for 8 weeks will kill off pretty much any fish parisite in addition to flukes). I know that sounds like a long time, but it's worth it in the long run.
Can you elaborate at all on what he/she looked at to ID the gill disease/fluke? Examination of the dead fish? If so how was it examined?
I second the statement that you may have a valuable resource that others may be interested in.
Personally I've been keeping SW for close to 10 yrs and I've never seen or heard of anyone having gill flukes in the hobby. Maybe the specifics on what you've seen and or what the aquatic biologist saw / looked for to ID the problem.
Sorry about your fish.
Edit, added thought;
BTW, if your going to keep the tank fishless for a few weeks, have you considered giving it a bit longer just to rule out any other possible parisites (ick) and allow time to fully QT any new fish? (keeping the tank fishless for 8 weeks will kill off pretty much any fish parisite in addition to flukes). I know that sounds like a long time, but it's worth it in the long run.
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littlep93056
Non-member
Sorry but my post
Was not meant to be sarcastic , it was a serious question based on your post
And my understanding of it . I read it many times & I took it to mean this
That you meet face to face with a Marine Biologist ,who had to have come to your house to analysis (examine or test) your tank & water ,also the died fish to determine that the fish died of gill disease
But after reading your answer
And you not answering other peoples questions , I must have been mistaken
in my understanding , sorry about that
Was not meant to be sarcastic , it was a serious question based on your post
And my understanding of it . I read it many times & I took it to mean this
That you meet face to face with a Marine Biologist ,who had to have come to your house to analysis (examine or test) your tank & water ,also the died fish to determine that the fish died of gill disease
But after reading your answer
And you not answering other peoples questions , I must have been mistaken
in my understanding , sorry about that
joefitz
Non-member
sdulak, sorry to hear about your losses. I can't see how leaving the tank empty would hurt your situation so that is probably a safe course of action. I would definitely try to figure out a positive ID re: what killed your fish so that you can figure out additional details... For instance, if it were flukes, find out how long their lifecycle is and whether there are other precautions you could take to ensure the tank is safe for fish again.
Also, as much trouble as it may be, this is exactly the kind of situation that makes people invest in a quarantine/hospital tank. Whatever killed everything got into your tank somehow -- through some livestock you added -- so if it is at all feasible for you to set up a QT, I'd highly recommend it.
One FYI, ich's lifecycle is pretty long, if you want to make sure your tank is also ich free before adding any new fish, let the tank sit 6-8 weeks without adding fish. Of course, pretty much any fish you buy is likely to come with ich as well so unless you are going to treat it with medication or hypo-salinity in QT tank, ich will end up back in your tank soon enough anyway.
Don't let Mike bother you, he's often "misunderstood".
Also, as much trouble as it may be, this is exactly the kind of situation that makes people invest in a quarantine/hospital tank. Whatever killed everything got into your tank somehow -- through some livestock you added -- so if it is at all feasible for you to set up a QT, I'd highly recommend it.
One FYI, ich's lifecycle is pretty long, if you want to make sure your tank is also ich free before adding any new fish, let the tank sit 6-8 weeks without adding fish. Of course, pretty much any fish you buy is likely to come with ich as well so unless you are going to treat it with medication or hypo-salinity in QT tank, ich will end up back in your tank soon enough anyway.
Don't let Mike bother you, he's often "misunderstood".
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It's true - if you call a university you'll probably find someone who likes to solve these kinds of mysteries. Or a grad student or post-doc who needs the practice. My invert zoologist prof in college had people bring him crazy things from all over Florida, and the nastier it was the better he liked it!
Another source of parasites may be your water. On the off chance you're using NSW, fluke larvae and eggs as well as cysts of all kinds can get through micron filters, UV banks, batch chlorination, you name it. Something will ALWAYS get through. I used to raise cod up in NH, and we had an outbreak of gill flukes in our fingerlings, even though we had all the above protections.
However, if it IS flukes, going fishless for eight weeks may not solve your problem. Flukes have multiple life stages, and different hosts for each stage. Many use snails as an intermediate host, and can stay in that life stage for an extended period of time.
My point is - get as detailed a diagnosis as possible before getting fish again, or you may be in this predicament again.
Sorry for your loss, and best of luck!
J
Another source of parasites may be your water. On the off chance you're using NSW, fluke larvae and eggs as well as cysts of all kinds can get through micron filters, UV banks, batch chlorination, you name it. Something will ALWAYS get through. I used to raise cod up in NH, and we had an outbreak of gill flukes in our fingerlings, even though we had all the above protections.
However, if it IS flukes, going fishless for eight weeks may not solve your problem. Flukes have multiple life stages, and different hosts for each stage. Many use snails as an intermediate host, and can stay in that life stage for an extended period of time.
My point is - get as detailed a diagnosis as possible before getting fish again, or you may be in this predicament again.
Sorry for your loss, and best of luck!
J
