Help,Ich in a hypo tank?

[stingythingy45]

I've had all my fish in a 20 long now for almost 4 weeks.I pulled them all after doing the ultimate stupid of adding a fish that broke out without QT.For the first 3-5 days I treated with Rid Ich +(formalin/malichite green)in a 10 gallon.
I moved my filter from my 55 over to the QT tank to help seed it with bacteria.This was after some advice from RC mod.I did this about a week after I moved the fish.Everything was looking fine.Even picked out a date to return the fish.Then today I get home from work and my male clown has Ich.
He's even flashing some,the female has a few specks also.The other fish(a few damsel,blenny and chromis) look fine.
I test the water for SG every day on a calibrated refractor.(1.010 SG)
Now what do I do?
Is this normal to have a break out while in hypo,due to the life cycle of Ich?
Will this breakout die now when it tries to encyst?
Should I consider copper now?

 

[Sean Irwin]

Ich has a long life cycle with several stages, eliminating it requires treatment and leaving your main tank fallow for about one month. It's advisable to keep your fish in QT for a full 40 days. Hyposalinity is very effective but make sure you make the adjustment back to full salinity very slowly, no more than 0.04 sg per day. If I remember correctly, malachite green and formalin are not very good at treating ich, copper medications like Seachem's Cupramine are extremely effective but you must monitor the copper concentration.

 

[Arthur1]

You may want to bring your salinity down a tad more like 1.009. Rid Ich is by Kordon isn't it. Quick cure is the old standby. I believe malachite green is derived from copper (anit parasite) and the formalin is very anti bacterial as well kinda like a parasitic/bacterial wammy in one. Its actually a great combo. Theres other things to do but you know what, just keep doing what you're doing. Don't be shy on the water changes in the quarantine as this will one help remove cysts that may be in the substrate but also keep the water quality in optimum "shape".

 

[Jennifer]

My understanding is that the ick parasite survives the hypo but eggs do not.

Weird tho, I think you started a hypo Qt like 2 0r 3 weeks ago Right?
Wonder if freshwater ich can survive in a slightly saline environment. Are you using R/O or tap water.

 

[Jennifer]

Also I have used Rubyreef Kick Ick with success.

 

[stingythingy45]

I'm using ro/di water.
The tank has been kept at 1.010 sg for over 3 weeks now.I could drop lower if need be.
It strange,it's on the clownfish but it's very small bumps.I change the water frequently,every 3-5 days.It actually cyled and the ammonia that was present for a while is down to 0 ppm.I have like 5 ppm of nitrite and a little nitrate that builds up.But I change the water out(50%) when it gets high.I'm hoping this is the last horray for the Ich.If not i'll get some cupramine.
Display will still remain fallow for the full 6 weeks.

 

[wrassefan]

hypo needs to be 1.009 or lower....bump the temp up to at least 80 degrees and aerate well. If you use meds, you better bump up the salinity back to normal range like 1.020 . DO NOT DO BOTH TOGETHER..

 

[stingythingy45]

Ok,I'll bump the temp up also.
It's running about 76 degees right now.
Also dropped down to 1.009 sg.

 

[stingythingy45]

I'm guessing I had a few tomonts make it over to the hypo tank via the filter or could have had some encyst before I made it to hypo treatment.
They'll be in for a surprise when they try encystment with SG at 1.008.
What's killing me is most sites state to leave the fish in hypo 4 weeks after spots disappear.Well,what happens if the cryto goes through it cycle and hatches 6 weeks into hypo?Isn't the whole"time"to allow the Crypto to go through it's cycle?

 

[stingythingy45]

I don't get it........
Today I get home from work and the male clown has just a few tiny specks on him.Do my regular test on the water.Buffer the Ph a little.Next thing I know him and the female are doing the acky breaky shaky in the corner.
They've been doing this for about an hour or so..........guess he's feeling fine.lol

 

[stingythingy45]

The way things are going my fish will die of old age before I put them back in the display.No other fish but the clowns show ich.The male had it all over his back last night.They aren't breathing hard,they're eating good.And well.....he's even frisky.It's been 4 weeks now and I don't even know what i'm going to do.I guess it's going to be the full 8 weeks in QT.Or would it be worth raising the SG and going for copper.I do know one thing,the display tank will remain fallow for a full 8 weeks no matter what.I guess i'm just losing patience.

 

[Jennifer]

Stingy just a thought, you would be amazed at how many people have been caught by this even me. A lot of times it is just sand, it sticks to the slime coat on the fish. Can really look like Ick I know I have been scared by that a few times myself.

You may have already thought of this I just thought I would throw it out there.

- Jenn

 

[MarkO]

From my many years of experience with this parasite I can tell you that removing all your fish into a QT tank will remove the parasite from your tank completely. I went with a full month (about 31 days) before I reintroduced fish and never saw an outbreak until I added an unquarantined fish years later (big mistake). I did crank up the display temp to 82-84 deg. during that process.

So yes, if done properly you can completely eliminate ich from yoru tank.

That being said, adding fish can prove to be quite a chore later. You will need a QT tank and you will need to quaranitne for at least a month for any addition. You will also have to be very careful you do not introduce any water or live rock back to the display tank. I made the mistake of once having a fish die in QT then put the LR back into the display. With a dozen fish in my display it proved essentially impossible to remove them, so I have been stuck with the parasite to this day (going on about 2 years).

But since my tank is stable and not overpopulated, I rarely (if ever) experience any fish with any spots and I do have 2 tangs. So nowadays I just live with the parasite. It makes ading fish very easy. I'm not sure if they develop more of an immunity, if the parasite is weaker, or if my tank conditions are better, or a combination of the three. But I no longer worry about it.

 

[stingythingy45]

The QT tank has no sand,just PVC,Jennifer.
The fish have been in there for 4 weeks now at 1.010.I dropped that down to 1.009(using a refractor of coarse).
For a while there I was doing water changes every 3 days like clockwork to keep the ammonia level down.Now the tank has cycled and ammonia is 0,but nitrite is in the tank at 5 ppm.I also have found that my API nitrate test works also.lol...I wasn't sure as I never registered nitrates in the display.
One of the biggest challenges lately is PH.I find myself dosing a little Randy's Alk in the QT nightly to bring PH back to normal.
I have read so much about Ich over the last 4 weeks that it makes me dizzy.
I've read that Ich left alone has been known to go through over 30 cycles(roughly 11 months) in a tank before finally dying out.Perhaps this is happening in your tank,MarkO.I'll just stick it out and see if I can hold out another month.
Gee,it's almost like you need 2 display tanks.One for FO with PVC. And one with the LR and inverts.

 

[JohnK]

IME it's fine to go down to 1.008 (I have used that as the Max number I'd allow it to get to before adding FW top off water). Be careful about how long you go between top offs, the SG can creep up that way.

Are you %100 positive on the ID of the spots your seeing? Can you post pics?

FWIW, I have read that there are mysterious strains of ick out there that are very hypo resistant and can survive normal hypo treatment (I'm pretty skeptical of this though, the claims I have read seem to come from people who didn't to the treatment right in the first place???)

 

[stingythingy45]

John,I will try and snap some pictures tonight with my daughter new camera and post tomorrow.I have to do this at work as my home computer is too dated.
It appears to be with specks the size of salt grains.There's no red marks or anything around the specks.
Not many,probably about 6-10 total.The fish shows no signs of breathing heavy,eats like a pig,even doing the shaky thing with the female.There's maybe 2 or 3 on her by the dorsal fin.All the other fish are fine:
Lawnmower blenny
Yellow tail Damsel
Blue damsel (not aggressive at all)
Green Chromis

At first I was wondering if what I might be seeing is some effect from the PH dropping the way it did before I got on top of that.It dropped clear down to 7.9 one day before I slowly raised it.

 

[stingythingy45]

Here's a site I found today that has some good info.
It may be a bit controversial...but very informative.

http://www.reefland.com/forum/marin...e-treatment/20321-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

 

[Jennifer]

Nice link - very useful!!!

Did you see the link in there for Marine velvet. I thought that was very interesting as well.

 

[stingythingy45]

Reading that one now.lol