If you could advise a shop on how to improve....would you?

[marco67]

FWIW,
I think this is a BAD BAD Idea! Did I say Bad?
Since when is the Mission of the club to start giving business advise to stores, it's gotten the club into rocky relations before and it will again without doing it officially. One thing to remember and it's true!, an average LFS gets 5-10% of their gross from the club, I heard that figure before I opened Fishy Business and thought ..."BS" but that's the fact.
The bottom line is that the best thing for a store to do it to cater to their other 90% customer base, and if the club starts taking an official position of how a store should be run you/we stand to loose what little support is left.

Take that for what it's worth from a hobbyist, 5+ year club member and former store owner,
Marc

 

[Corwyn]

FWIW,
I think this is a BAD BAD Idea! Did I say Bad?
Since when is the Mission of the club to start giving business advise to stores, it's gotten the club into rocky relations before and it will again without doing it officially. One thing to remember and it's true!, an average LFS gets 5-10% of their gross from the club, I heard that figure before I opened Fishy Business and thought ..."BS" but that's the fact.
The bottom line is that the best thing for a store to do it to cater to their other 90% customer base, and if the club starts taking an official position of how a store should be run you/we stand to loose what little support is left.

Take that for what it's worth from a hobbyist, 5+ year club member and former store owner,
Marc

Marc,

Not speaking from personal experience with you, but a recent experience with a fathers day gift, maybe the reason that lfs only get 5-10% of our business is because they don't know what they're doing and LIE just to get the things out the door.

Long story short - I was out of town during fathers day and my son who has recently taken an interest in my tank really wanted to get something.

I told them to get zoos or mushrooms or ricordias. Local LFS sold them a sun coral, told them it was a zoo. When I got back into town and called the store I was told that I didn't know what I was talking about and the sun corals are polyps, besides "you bought it you own it" .

Note - I didn't name the store to prove that I am not trying to start some kind of lfs bash or flame war, but to perhaps shed some light on why BRS members spend so little money in lfs (this isn't the first store or time when I heard people in stores tell uneducated customers stuff like this) and to suggest that maybe a little more knowledge and honesty might go a long way. Yes I know about Caveat Emptor and all that but still!

 

[Greg Hiller]

Marc,

I don't understand. If it's all private, what difference does it make? If a store is not interested in ways to improve...that's okay. If a shop thinks we are just a bunch of bozos, that's okay as well, they need not participate.

Regarding the mission of the club (from the mission statement):

"To educate the public on the topics related to the biology, physiology, and chemistry or reef biotopes"

I think educating folks that work at a shop falls in this category.

'To support....conservation efforts aimed at improving marine and coral reef environments'

Attempting to suggest that shops not bring in Dendronepthea (or at least very rarely), or sharks, or tangs that grow to 3 feet long seems to fit here.

 

[marco67]

Marc,

Not speaking from personal experience with you, but a recent experience with a fathers day gift, maybe the reason that lfs only get 5-10% of our business is because they don't know what they're doing and LIE just to get the things out the door.

Not 5-10% of "our/club members" business, 5-10% of the stores gross business.
The hobby is a lot bigger than the BRS, the vast majority of people I met through the store were just plain not interested in a club.

Greg,
Private? Oh maybe I misunderstood. In that case mmm ...man maybe with extreme caution? But I still think it's a train wreck waiting to happen.
The club has been down that road before alienated sponsors and even lost sponsors over it, (you know what/ who I mean).

 

[Scuba_Dave]

So Marc, you didn't like my suggestion on selling me that large tank for $300

Definitely could be a problem
I know I always tell the bartender how to make my drinks
Always wins them over

I think a store should know when there is misinformation being told to customers. In the long run, it will (I think?) help their business
People will be happier with their purchases, their critters will be happier & hopefully live longer

 

[GinaD]

As long as it can be kept simple & direct, and not offending to anyone, I don't see the harm. However, I would be careful that a multiple choice only is allowed, so no store is berrated unfairly in public because of one or two people trying to use this poll as a forum for 'retaliation' for one bad experience. I see this can be a great tool for the stores to improve, as long as they actually use it and take the 'hint' for where they may be lacking.

 

[Greg Hiller]

Folks.........can you please......read......the.....1st....post.....where....it.....says....."Information would not be revealed publically, so all those that get a kick out of dishing a shop in public would not be very satisfied."

 

[~Flighty~]

Could you type slower, Greg? I don't understand .

 

[Greg Hiller]

Not picking on anyone...but:

Just for kicks I counted up the number of times I said 'private' in so many words. The first was in the 1st post:

'Information would not be revealed publically'

then in a later post:

'There would be no thread. As I mentioned, the comments would be delivered directly to the shops.'

Then again:

'If it's all private, what difference does it make? '

It's amazing how people just do not read. This is how so many misunderstanding occur on this board. People get all bent out of shape about something when they didn't understand what was written in the first place.

 

[JohnK]

I get the private thing and agree that it would be crucial to making such an idea productive.

As far as my personal opinion, all I can say is my willingness to offer feedback/suggestions totally depends on the store/owner/staff that I'm talking to.

For example, when marc had his store I felt totally comfortable with him and his customer service and therefore would happily chit chat about my thoughts if I had anything to say except that I liked his store. There are other stores that don't give such a positive vibe, and some that do (Marc mentioned since he had a store that I liked a lot, but it's no longer in buis).

I see the concern in giving an opinion / criticism as a club, but if there was something like an open suggestion box for sponsors that would only be seen by the sponsors and mods it could be a good thing - if the store cared they would listen, if not they wouldn't.

Personally if I have comments/concerns/suggestons I already PM the owners/operators with my thoughts if I feel comfortable with them and they seem receptive.

Feedback can be helpful, but no one likes to be criticized. In the (personally blind) internet world it can get very hard to discern feedback from criticism (or outright flaming and insults).

My guess is that certain places are already great AND will listen to suggestions (part of why they are "great"). Others may, more less not be so good at all, and most of them won't care about suggestions. Could be helpful for club members in thinning out stores they visit, but could also encourage concern among sponsors that they might just want to avoid the BRS in fear of getting a low approval rating or something (I still remember the Private status of this idea, but indirect influence of peoples opinions counts too).

I think it's a great idea, but I do see the potential for problems.

I thought the LFS poll was very interesting, but there are about 6 shops that I think highly of IME, and some didn't ever show up because the same few stores got all the votes (for good reason, but still giving the couple next best no votes). I'd hate to see "X" new and up and coming sponsor get turned off to the club?

 

[JavaJones]

It might be useful to create (if it hasn't already been created) a list of some general do's and don'ts for the ideal lfs.

Still, believing firmly in sunshine when it comes to folks servicing the public, some sort of report card measuring the lfs against a checklist may aid in members making their decisions about whom to patronize. Of course, all sorts of delicious liability issues may be incurred, but transparency is a good thing... So I guess, typed fast or s l o w...I'm on the other side of the privacy debate.

 

[RichConley]

FWIW,
One thing to remember and it's true!, an average LFS gets 5-10% of their gross from the club, I heard that figure before I opened Fishy Business and thought ..."BS" but that's the fact.

Maybe average store gets that, but not most of the sponsors. (You dont count Marc, you were geographically innaccesible to most of the members.)


I dont think I've been in a Sponsor in the last year where most of the people in the store werent BRS members.

 

[ScottM]

Maybe average store gets that, but not most of the sponsors. (You dont count Marc, you were geographically innaccesible to most of the members.)


I dont think I've been in a Sponsor in the last year where most of the people in the store werent BRS members.

don't fool yourself into thinking the club makes up most of the LFS biz.
Quite frankly that a joke to think it’s true.

Not to be overly harsh on the BRS spending habits as a whole, but.......

there certainly are a lot of BRS 'lookers" at the LFS who go to chat it up, maybe have a drink or two, but they are not the ones spending 20K on a new setup. They are not the ones buying maint. /service agreements at $400 a month. They are not the ones buying the pumps and dry goods at sticker prices.

In fact most of them complain publicly that the LFS price is higher than online/ebay and often spend enormous amounts of time trying to find an angle to get a better deal. Most even complain that the price to buy something (reasonably priced or not) can be DIY made at a much lower cost , and who would pay such high prices.....
I have often heard other LFS (INCLUDING sponsors) refer to the BRS as the Boston cheapers rather than the Boston reefers.

And why doesn't marc count? Because he was far away? Does that mean CRA doesn't apply to those members in NH because he's too far away? How the heck does that make any sense? Now the BOD is measuring inaccessibility? NICE. that must really suck for those online vendors like champion or people like Farmer john in CT. nice to know they don't count.
Rich, you never cease to amaze me.


As far as the BRS making suggestions to LFS.... I can't believe this thread is for real....
the concept of constructive criticism to a store might be well received on an individual level as most stores listen to their returning customers, but to have an online group walk in with a "you suck and this is why" statement (regardless on how you word it) is only going to further distance the BRS from any future sponsorship.

Maybe Jeremy is onto something with the one cup system...

 

[Moe_K]

Scott, if you go back to Greg's original post on this thread...

So as to not waste anyone's time, only shops that were interested in receiving comments would be included in the 'poll'. I think it could potentially help a lot of shops find out how they might improve.

So, from what I gather, the idea would not be to walk into a shop with the results of the survey unannounced - but rather to see if anyone wanted constructive criticism, and if so to provide.
Maybe Greg can confirm or correct me on that one.

 

[JohnK]

Maybe we should just suggest that interested stores set up suggestion boxes

Could there be an option for interested sponsors to have private suggestion boxes built into their sponsor fourms?

I get what Marc and Scott are saying. As a club we probally aren't the best customers (with club group buys, online ordering, DIY exct.).

Personally, about all I end up buying locally is salt, livestock, frozen/refrigerated food, and whatever just failed and needs replacing in a hurry. Anything with a big price tag is getting mail-ordered or DIY'd. I also window shop a lot more than I spend. I'm glad a lot of stores give us a discount, I'd hate to see that change because we're getting to be more trouble than we're worth.

 

[RichConley]

And why doesn't marc count? Because he was far away? Does that mean CRA doesn't apply to those members in NH because he's too far away? How the heck does that make any sense? Now the BOD is measuring inaccessibility?

Scott, Jeremy is 45 minutes from Boston. Marc is 2 hours on a good day. Theyre hardly the same.



Scott, every comment I make is not the stance of the BOD. I am a human being, not just a face on the machine. What is your issue?

 

[Greg Hiller]

>So, from what I gather, the idea would not be to walk into a shop with the results of the survey unannounced - but rather to see if anyone wanted constructive criticism, and if so to provide.
Maybe Greg can confirm or correct me on that one.<

That was the thought. Yet another person who didn't read the thread.

I'll agree we are a cheap lot. I'm at the top of the list. I find it enjoyable to find bargins, that's just me. At the same time, I will pay good $ for quality equipment and livestock, and I know value when I see it. When I purchase equipment I look for stuff that will last for a long time.

 

[Scuba_Dave]

I have often heard other LFS (INCLUDING sponsors) refer to the BRS as the Boston cheapers rather than the Boston reefers.

I heard this before I joined, from an LSF. I said I was thinking of joining a reef club - "Oh, them - they never spend any money" was the polite part of it

 

[Moe_K]

If you have a full tank, and don't kill anything, you pretty much can't buy anything else.
However, if you don't know what you're doing, and you kill lots of coral and fish, then you are the retailer's cash cow.

 

[JohnK]

In general the BRS isn't a cash cow for LFS's, but I would think whatever encourages a positive relationship is good.