internal vs. external return pumps

[Joel A]

I'm trying to decide which makes more sense for my new system, big powerful external that moves a lot of water (overflow will be able to handle it fine anyways) or a small compact internal that just gets the job done well.

My thinking has always been create flow in the tank with powerheads/closed loop, and not the return, but i also think that a little extra from the return isn't a bad thing.

Originally i was leaning towards the Eheim 1260, but now i'm having seconds thoughts because the overflow system i'm using can handle a lot more water movement than that.

So as far as pumps go, it's got to be quiet (very important), not add much heat to the water (again very important) and be powerful enough to overcome at least 4' of head pressure and still have enough power to move a bit of water in the tank.

My main concerns with external pumps are noise, heat added to the water, space they take up in the stand, and since i'll also be moving more water through my sump if i use an external powerhouse return pump, i could possibly run into a micro-bubble issue.

As far as internal goes, i don't have many concerns, i know how good eheim pumps are, and i know what i'd get from it (little heat added, low noise, solid performance, doesn't take up a lot of space) but the drawback of course is it doesn't move much water either.

What do you guys think? What makes more sense?

 

[jbishop]

I say move water with Power heads in tank. You will most likely run less watts.

 

[stingythingy45]

You'll get more heat from internal than an external pump for sure.
Sounds like you already know what you want,Joel.
Eheim 1260 will work just fine for 4 ft. of head pressure.

 

[MikeG]

Reguardless, get a pupm that gives the same in tank flow. As you said use powerheads or closed loop. I think externals do generally add less heat to the water. I also use one external to power all my other accessories off a manifold including frag tank, carbon, phosban when I run it, UV, calcium reactor, ect. Something to keep in mind if you see yourself having much equipment in the future.

 

[bigdog]

i have two systems and internal pumps. if i ever do it again it will be external reason is heat/ vibration /room plus i like the look but thats just me

 

[Miller]

I'd go with external if you can fit it. They put less heat into the water then internal pumps. The electric motor that drives an external pump is away from the water so its heat does not transfer to the water like an internal pump that is surrounded by water.

Which ever way you go I'd get a pump to give you the turnover you wanted and use power heads for the flow in the tank. You don't want to waste watts creating flow with a larger pump then you need to have.

If you want to get more water movement out of your return use a penductor. I put one on the return line in our new 93 gallon and it really makes the water rip around.

 

[sciknen]

Yea.. I'd worry about the watts and just replace it with more flow from power heads

 

[Joel A]

I agree on the power the power heads using less watts, as well as moving water in broader flow patterns. That's why my original thinking was a small, internal return pump that moved just enough water to get the job done.... However as far as watts go, the eheim 1260 uses 65 watts, and pumps 635 gph. If you compare that to a pump like a Reeflo Snapper, that uses 100 watts, and pushes about 2500 gph, you can see how much more efficient you can be pushing water with an external pump when it comes to wattage.

My current internal pump uses 93 watts, and the reeflo snapper only uses 100, and pushes about 2.5 times as much water, without adding much heat to the water. The other thing i like about external is that if they are even the slightest bit loud, you can quiet them with pads, which you obviously can't do as well with internal pumps.

I don't know, i'm really still up in the air on this one.


Oh- and if you didn't get the idea from the first post heat transfer, and noise are the two most important factors here really. I'm really nervous on how i'm going to be able to keep the tank cool over the hot summers, as it's getting moved out of the room with air conditioning, so i'm really trying to reduce the amount of heat i'm adding to the tank with the equipment.

 

[ReeferMedic]

I didn't read through this whole thread, but my train of thought has always been to use an external where ever possible. For the most part, they are more durable, last longer, and add less heat. I've never had a lot of luck long term with any of the submersible pumps with the exception of Eheim. I've also never had a single problem with any of the Little Giant or Sequence pumps I've used over the years. They are usually louder, so that may be a factor for you. A Sequence Snapper only draws 100 watts and a Dart only 150 or so iirc. I run a 210 and 72 bow off a snapper along with a dart in the 210 as a closed loop. I decided to go with the closed loop when I had 9 large power heads in the 210 and it still wasn't cutting it. ::

 

[Joel A]

yeah, i referred to the great efficiency of the Snapper in the post above... that was going to be my pump of choice if i was going external... how are they as far as noise goes?

 

[Arthur1]

Joel I had a nice write up for you but it didn't go through. All well. Basically, if you don;t mind a little hum and you have the external space available go external. Less heat transfer (for most pumps) they do last a long time etc. What size aquarium is this pump going on?

 

[Joel A]

it's a 100 gallon tank (48x24x20). I don't mind a "little" hum as long as it's truly "a little" lol. Noise has been an issue with my previous tank, and a lot of that noise comes from the mag return pump... and i really don't want that to be an issue with the new tank, especially because it's going to be in the family living room =/ .

 

[MisFit]

The snapper is pretty quiet and if you dial back on it with a ball valve (assuming you dont need all 2600 gph), you will also use less watts. Check out the snapper 18, a little less flow but also less wattage.

 

[MisFit]

And throw one of these under it. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2LVR7

 

[Joel A]

And throw one of these under it. http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2LVR7

This is one of the nice things about external pumps. Have you used this material before? How well does it work?

 

[reeferpj]

i had a 1920gph in my sump for years and allways had micro bubbles IME for a sump just get the job done. to much water through a sump isn't always a good thing. dropped down to a mag 9.5 and all is good also run a ca reactor and phos & carbon reactor off it

 

[Joel A]

i had a 1920gph in my sump for years and allways had micro bubbles IME for a sump just get the job done. to much water through a sump isn't always a good thing. dropped down to a mag 9.5 and all is good also run a ca reactor and phos & carbon reactor off it

this is another issue. I think i addressed it as a concern in my first post as well... I really don't want to have microbubble issues.

 

[reeferpj]

power head mods are great and cheap i just put 2 in my tank and love them

 

[wrassefan]

the eheim 1262 will give you 900gph using 80w. It is extremely quiet but will transfer some heat being internal

 

[Joel A]

the eheim 1262 will give you 900gph using 80w. It is extremely quiet but will transfer some heat being internal

yeah, that's why i was leaning towards the 1260, because if i'm going internal i want it to be low wattage, low heat transfer, and just enough water movement. If i go internal it will almost certainly be the eheim 1260. In a perfect world it would be a red dragon, but i don't want to spend like 300 dollars extra for a red dragon that's similar to an eheim.