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It finally happened, NOAA listed 20 out of 66 proposed coral
- Thread starter dz6t
- Start date
Puff Daddy
Non-member
Wow. This is a big deal. What are the implications?
Puff Daddy
Non-member
Looks like a lot of the implications are TBA. Stay tuned.
"There are currently no prohibitions relating to individual conduct, except for those related to the two previously listed elkhorn and staghorn corals in the Caribbean.
•We will consult with federal agencies on actions that they execute, fund, or authorize that “may affect” listed corals to ensure the action does not jeopardize the continued existence of these corals.
•In the future, we may also identify specific regulations for the conservation of these threatened species, because ESA prohibitions against “take” are not automatically applied as they are for species listed as endangered.
•We will continue to work with communities to help them understand how the agency’s decision may or may not affect them. The tools available under the Endangered Species Act are sufficiently flexible so that they can be used in partnership with coastal jurisdictions, in a manner that will allow activity to move forward in a way that does not jeopardize listed coral.
•We will now work with partners on mitigation measures and recovery strategies for the newly listed corals, building from approaches that have shown success elsewhere."
"There are currently no prohibitions relating to individual conduct, except for those related to the two previously listed elkhorn and staghorn corals in the Caribbean.
•We will consult with federal agencies on actions that they execute, fund, or authorize that “may affect” listed corals to ensure the action does not jeopardize the continued existence of these corals.
•In the future, we may also identify specific regulations for the conservation of these threatened species, because ESA prohibitions against “take” are not automatically applied as they are for species listed as endangered.
•We will continue to work with communities to help them understand how the agency’s decision may or may not affect them. The tools available under the Endangered Species Act are sufficiently flexible so that they can be used in partnership with coastal jurisdictions, in a manner that will allow activity to move forward in a way that does not jeopardize listed coral.
•We will now work with partners on mitigation measures and recovery strategies for the newly listed corals, building from approaches that have shown success elsewhere."
OP
OP
We had Dr. Rhyme come about a year and a half ago to speak in endangered fish.
Maybe it is time to invite him back to speak on this subject as well.
Maybe it is time to invite him back to speak on this subject as well.
Dong,
That is where this is going to get very tricky....as who is going to be IDing the "banned" Corals. Many Wildlife and Game officers will tell you they don't know and Acropora sp. from a Sinularia Sp. So this whole industry could be in for a very tough road ahead....or they will do absolutely nothing....which is more likely the case....or the most likely option for them really would be a blanket ban (just to cover their a**) and not have to spend the money on training that most of the people that get trained will not bother to remember....
And what about maricultured and aquacultured Corals....many many farms are being set up all over the Pacific Ocean specifically to farm corals for the aquarium trade, as to ease the collection of wild specimen...those species listed are among Corals that re being cultured...will they be banned as well???
We will just have to wait and see where this goes...either way a push for more cultured Corals is a much better thing anyway...I would say about 60-70% of the Coral we bring in is cultured (both maricultured and aquacultured) Then we try to aquaculture as much Coral that we bring in as possible...thus helping sustainability and the bottom line....
That is where this is going to get very tricky....as who is going to be IDing the "banned" Corals. Many Wildlife and Game officers will tell you they don't know and Acropora sp. from a Sinularia Sp. So this whole industry could be in for a very tough road ahead....or they will do absolutely nothing....which is more likely the case....or the most likely option for them really would be a blanket ban (just to cover their a**) and not have to spend the money on training that most of the people that get trained will not bother to remember....
And what about maricultured and aquacultured Corals....many many farms are being set up all over the Pacific Ocean specifically to farm corals for the aquarium trade, as to ease the collection of wild specimen...those species listed are among Corals that re being cultured...will they be banned as well???
We will just have to wait and see where this goes...either way a push for more cultured Corals is a much better thing anyway...I would say about 60-70% of the Coral we bring in is cultured (both maricultured and aquacultured) Then we try to aquaculture as much Coral that we bring in as possible...thus helping sustainability and the bottom line....
OP
OP
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+8&ddid=239210
Euphyllia divisa is not on the list.
Can you tell Euphyllia divisa from Euphyllia paradivisa? (hint: look at the bone)
Euphyllia divisa is not on the list.
Can you tell Euphyllia divisa from Euphyllia paradivisa? (hint: look at the bone)
Puff Daddy
Non-member
So I read through their status review report section justifying the listing of Acropora Lokani. See pg. 215 http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/stories/2012/05/07_coral_documents_page.html
There is zero data to support their listing, except that Acropora Lokani is an Acropora sp. and all Acropora sp. are sensitive.
"Threats
Thermal stress: Although there is not much species-specific information about the susceptibility of Acropora lokani to thermal stress…
Acidification: No specific research has addressed the effects of acidification on Acropora lokani…
Disease: Susceptibility and impacts of disease on Acropora lokani are not known, although in general Acropora species are moderately to highly susceptible to disease…
Predation: The specific effects of predation are poorly known for Acropora lokani…
Land-based sources of pollution (LBSP): The specific effects of LBSP stresses are largely unknown for Acropora lokani…"
So after acknowledging that they have no species specific information then the post this magical plot to predict the future of the species.
There is zero data to support their listing, except that Acropora Lokani is an Acropora sp. and all Acropora sp. are sensitive.
"Threats
Thermal stress: Although there is not much species-specific information about the susceptibility of Acropora lokani to thermal stress…
Acidification: No specific research has addressed the effects of acidification on Acropora lokani…
Disease: Susceptibility and impacts of disease on Acropora lokani are not known, although in general Acropora species are moderately to highly susceptible to disease…
Predation: The specific effects of predation are poorly known for Acropora lokani…
Land-based sources of pollution (LBSP): The specific effects of LBSP stresses are largely unknown for Acropora lokani…"
So after acknowledging that they have no species specific information then the post this magical plot to predict the future of the species.
where I come from there's a saying along the lines "dogs bark, caravan keeps going"; pretty much describes what the government has been doing since 9/11, no oversight, no control, lots of interest groups, no feedback circuits, nothing, .....; "dog bark, caravan keeps going". Sometimes it feels like unless one is dirty enough for the liking of the ones in power one can not get into power, ....; corruption scandals everywhere, billions of "overseas parked profits", budget deficits, economy is haywire, the top 1% pays percent wise less taxes than the average Joe, etc, etc, etc.
Dogs Bark, Caravan keeps going, ....
Going to have a look at the tank - should make me feel better, ..., especially considering some of those frags I got from you started growing.
Dogs Bark, Caravan keeps going, ....
Going to have a look at the tank - should make me feel better, ..., especially considering some of those frags I got from you started growing.
delta
Impatient Reefer
This is a step in the direction giving the power that be a leg to stand on to vote for legislation restricting coral sales and ownership. Do not down play this in anyway. The experts in the field have been warning the hobbyist for the last 10years this is coming. "Not and If but when" We have had many many speaker discuss this topic. There is a reason the vendors are moving more and more toward aquaculture and Mari-cultured corals. Hobbyist better get on board before there is nothing left to board. Lets hope this stops falling on deaf ears.
exactly what I said, the dogs bark, the caravan passes.
People that know the situation keep telling them for YEARS and they finally move; it will take them another 10 year to decide what measures need to be taken to enforce anything, and than another 10 to figure out what the punishment is for breaking the rules they established, etc, etc, etc;
meanwhile, if you need a "permit" to dig out half a coral reef somewhere all you need to do is get an oil or shipping company to back you up, as we have seen it done a couple of times this summer alone.
Lets not excited with them moving, they do that periodically so the masses feel like they are working.
People that know the situation keep telling them for YEARS and they finally move; it will take them another 10 year to decide what measures need to be taken to enforce anything, and than another 10 to figure out what the punishment is for breaking the rules they established, etc, etc, etc;
meanwhile, if you need a "permit" to dig out half a coral reef somewhere all you need to do is get an oil or shipping company to back you up, as we have seen it done a couple of times this summer alone.
Lets not excited with them moving, they do that periodically so the masses feel like they are working.
If they actually ban wild-collected corals, with our modern understanding of miniature reef systems it's so easy now to have a tank with only tank raised corals I don't think this is a big issue. If you include aqua-cultured (in the ocean) stuff on top of that it makes it even easier.
I Personally would prefer they ban any wild collection except for scientific and "seeding" use. The seeding use would be contingent on the condition to replenish what was collected after a certain period of time.
If somebody can grow shrimp cheap enough to compete with the traulers than somebody can grow coral cheap enough to meet the market demands, it's all a matter of regulation, supply and demand. Wish all these agencies would move their buts from their lobby powered armchairs and understand that at some point, ...
If somebody can grow shrimp cheap enough to compete with the traulers than somebody can grow coral cheap enough to meet the market demands, it's all a matter of regulation, supply and demand. Wish all these agencies would move their buts from their lobby powered armchairs and understand that at some point, ...
delta
Impatient Reefer
That reminds me I still have to get an Aquamarine Jewel to you
