I agree with a post above that no matter what you do some people will say it's right or wrong. I know that in my 125 FOWLR I got a good case of ick about 2 years ago. Did the whole take the fish out and leave it fishless for 8 weeks treated everyone in copper. After 8 weeks i put the fish back in and in a couple of months bam ick again. Im my opinion ick lies dormant and once you get it in your tank you can take all the fish out and stuff but the second your fish is stressed it will jump on it again. So taking out all the fish is a waste of time to me. I wasn't going to go that route again so i just soaked the food in garlic and setup a uv and i beat it that way with no losses. A lot of people are against uv but for me uv and soaked food in garlic is the cure for me. Again this is just my opinion.
Tangs my have ich...
- Thread starter walzy444
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walzy444
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this morning the yellow tang was dead. 2 fish left and I think the black clown will be gone by tomorrow. He is still completely cover and. Looks like it's getting worse. I think I'm more stressed than the fish... I am sooo all set with Something Fishy. I will never buy a single thing from them. First I get infested with flatworms off a coral I got from them. Look closely if you go there, the whole coral tank has tons of them. The dip I was told to use "revive" I am finding out dosent work at all. After selling me flatworms they have me buy a 30$ flatqorm exit. Now I buy fish, they said were healthy. after I questioned light spots on the tail and was told it's the tail coloration.. By the time I get them in my tank under my lights I immediately see they are completely covered in ich. Now my first fish, my favorite(Coral), is dead and her black and white mate (Shamu) is on his way out. Also the 2 overpriced tangs are dead as well. And to make it even worse, the tank I HAD JUST FINISHED SETTING UP has to be fishless for 8 weeks!!!!! Manager also said I can't get any sort of credit for the fish that destroyed my tank. All of the fish in their tanks are carrying the parasite... If 2 fish in differnt tanks were infested that bad, and all the tanks are connected, then you can only imagine how many are swimming in the water. I had no idea how fast ich can spread and contaminate a tank tip I got it. From this day on, I will QT and treat everything I put in my tank. I just hate being lied to and screwed over by a place that I trusted so much.
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walzy444
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Sorry for my venting post, loosing my clown fish was like loosing a dog... I lost it.. 
I did everything I could to help them, it's hard when there are so many rights and wrongs being mixed up like said b4. I read and research as much as I could and even some of that info conflicted different sources. I went with copper. The salinity is at 1.017. I didn't go completely hypo, just enough to put stress on the parasites to fall off. I dono what else to do but watch the remaindind 2 suffer and gasp for air.. I wish I could just put them down so they don't suffer anymore. It's so hard to watch...
I did everything I could to help them, it's hard when there are so many rights and wrongs being mixed up like said b4. I read and research as much as I could and even some of that info conflicted different sources. I went with copper. The salinity is at 1.017. I didn't go completely hypo, just enough to put stress on the parasites to fall off. I dono what else to do but watch the remaindind 2 suffer and gasp for air.. I wish I could just put them down so they don't suffer anymore. It's so hard to watch...
itz216
Non-member
ich
I have a Scopas Tang that developed Ich shortly after I purchased it. I didn't QT because I didn't have any other fish. Same scenario ....kept getting worse. I moved it to a QT and treated with meds ...still no relief. Then, when I was sure the fish would die, I decided to fresh water dip and drop him back in the display. That was 2-3 years ago. The ich sometimes comes back as a couple of spots but disappears in a few days.
I have a Scopas Tang that developed Ich shortly after I purchased it. I didn't QT because I didn't have any other fish. Same scenario ....kept getting worse. I moved it to a QT and treated with meds ...still no relief. Then, when I was sure the fish would die, I decided to fresh water dip and drop him back in the display. That was 2-3 years ago. The ich sometimes comes back as a couple of spots but disappears in a few days.
Am I reading this correctly.... You have a yellow tang and a sailfin tang in a 35 hex. Not to sound rude but that is hell for those two fish. Neither tang should be a 35 hex. There is no room to swim or grow. They are obviously going to stress all the time because of the tanks restraints. If they are really in a 35 hex I would suggest doing them a favor and giving them away or atleast one of them.
sagecx
Non-member
sorry to hear about the loss walzy. Ich can be devestating, in my experience cleaner shrimp have been very successful for me and have been Ich free for years now.
When i first started i used chemicals and current treatment methods and lost more fish than i saved. After that i just fed well and added cleaner shrimp, it has worked for me ever since.
Yanni
Non-member
Sorry about your losses Sarah, i feel ya. I would let the tank stay fishless for a while and make sure the parasite is gone. I left my tank fishless for about 6 weeks and restocked slowly. No signs at all on any of the new fish since then, keep your head up losses and tragedy happens to everyone in this hobby from time to time.
Ah, its a 75g nvm
Very sorry waltzy.
All I can say is you are more or less a victim of the massive amount of conflicting and false info about treating fish parisites.
Summary as follows;
1- Parisites can be eradicated, they have known life cycles. Eradication can be difficult, but IS possible
2- The process of treating the fish can be very risky and put the fish through a lot of stress which can even compromise them to the point of killing them.
3- The treatment (s) need to be done perfectly or they are useless
4- ick can be managed without eradication. This IS a valid option.
5- With all the conflicting info and misinfo it's very hard not to get led into aggressive treatments in too much of a hurry
6- ALL fish we get should be expected to be carrying parisites. NO LFS is set up to fully and properly QT and TREAT their fish. It is a practical imposibility. The best stores will hold their fish for a while before selling to make sure they are doing OK. That does not assure anything more than that the fish will have a fighting chance.
Also, FWIW, given how quickly these fish have been crashing it is possible that you are dealing with both ick and Brooknelya. Sadly very few fish survive brook regardless of what the aquarist does. The pics you posted looked like classic ick, but brook could have been there but not apparent.
Also, sorry if I, or others sound insensitive or cold. I try to focus on getting accurate info out there, but sometimes that requires acting like a bit of an "ick nazi". I'm only trying to help, and I'm sure the same goes for everyone else here.
All I can say is you are more or less a victim of the massive amount of conflicting and false info about treating fish parisites.
Summary as follows;
1- Parisites can be eradicated, they have known life cycles. Eradication can be difficult, but IS possible
2- The process of treating the fish can be very risky and put the fish through a lot of stress which can even compromise them to the point of killing them.
3- The treatment (s) need to be done perfectly or they are useless
4- ick can be managed without eradication. This IS a valid option.
5- With all the conflicting info and misinfo it's very hard not to get led into aggressive treatments in too much of a hurry
6- ALL fish we get should be expected to be carrying parisites. NO LFS is set up to fully and properly QT and TREAT their fish. It is a practical imposibility. The best stores will hold their fish for a while before selling to make sure they are doing OK. That does not assure anything more than that the fish will have a fighting chance.
Also, FWIW, given how quickly these fish have been crashing it is possible that you are dealing with both ick and Brooknelya. Sadly very few fish survive brook regardless of what the aquarist does. The pics you posted looked like classic ick, but brook could have been there but not apparent.
Also, sorry if I, or others sound insensitive or cold. I try to focus on getting accurate info out there, but sometimes that requires acting like a bit of an "ick nazi". I'm only trying to help, and I'm sure the same goes for everyone else here.
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I had a couple tangs in my 90g tank that had Ich. I removed them both, didnt leave the tank fallow for 8 weeks or anything. I havent seen the parasite since. One tang had died from being picked on by a powder blue, and then I gave away the powder blue tang.
Anyways, just saying that you dont need to do the 8 weeks fallow. I understand I probably(99%) still have the parasite, but with the fish I have right now they just arent very susceptible to ich. I think you will always have a problem with tangs/ich no matter what you do unless you are really really religious about the QT'ing period. ALso you need to QT not only fish, but EVERYTHING that goes in your tank. The parasite can come on rock that coral is attached to for example. Small chance, but its possible.
Also, I wouldnt really blame something fishy.. Im pretty sure any tang no matter where you got it from would have Ick in your tank unless your QT properly. Mine didnt come from something fishy and came from a very reputable LFS, and had ick. You need to be the responsible one and dont count on LFS providing you with perfect fish/coral because its just not realistic.
Anyways, just saying that you dont need to do the 8 weeks fallow. I understand I probably(99%) still have the parasite, but with the fish I have right now they just arent very susceptible to ich. I think you will always have a problem with tangs/ich no matter what you do unless you are really really religious about the QT'ing period. ALso you need to QT not only fish, but EVERYTHING that goes in your tank. The parasite can come on rock that coral is attached to for example. Small chance, but its possible.
Also, I wouldnt really blame something fishy.. Im pretty sure any tang no matter where you got it from would have Ick in your tank unless your QT properly. Mine didnt come from something fishy and came from a very reputable LFS, and had ick. You need to be the responsible one and dont count on LFS providing you with perfect fish/coral because its just not realistic.
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walzy444
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Yeah, I have a 75 gallon, the 35 hex is the QT. The tangs got along soo well, I was sooo happy because i hear all these stories where tangs fight. all my fish hung out together in a close pack.
In responce to the "ick nazi" lol Dont worry, I like getting all sides. The last thing i wanted was them to die.. i listen to what everyone said, read as much as i could about the lifecycle, methods ect.. I'd rather be yelled at if I'm doing something that will harm anything so I can stop. I did the best i could.. They just came in sooooo infested.. then it went thro its cycle in my tank and multiplied like crazy and sadly got everyone... I really thought the tangs were going to make it... they were clearing up and doing great, eating garlic and everything.. then all of a sudden it cycled again and they got covered again, and so did the clowns... its weird, the bangaii didnt eat any garlic, was rubbing up against and sleeping sandwiched in between the two tangs.. but he is totally fine.. he has maybe 3 or 4 spots on the tip of his front fins. Hes not breathing heavy or anything. The male clown is still covered.. i noticed some spots falling off of his body today, but his scales are soo messed up and scarred... he is still breathing heavy, but is still eating little bits, not as much as usual.. but hes trying.
For the cupamine copper treatment.. it said to add 2 drops per gallon of water.. then test levels 48 hours later.... It says its suppose to be at .5 or .6... It is barely even reading .25.. So i added more this morning, and tonight I just tested again, still says .25 barely.. the color is soo faint. But the ammonia is inbetween .25 and .5 ppm but closer to the .25 color. (API copper test kit) I had a bubble strip going to keep up the ph and give some more oxygen for the fish struggling to breathe. Not sure if the added oxygen is breaking down the copper and making ammonia some how?? The tank is bare, no sand or anything, just a plastic pvc L-shape to provide some hiding. So i just hung on a filter with foam and some Fluval Biomax things (white cylindars with a hole in the center) It says they absorb nitrates and ammonia. I just started this today, and its helping to move some water around. I shut off the bubble strip(dont want to get popeye either). I know carbon will take out the copper. I do not have any carbon in the filter. any ideas why the copper is still low and the ammonia went up?
In responce to the "ick nazi" lol Dont worry, I like getting all sides. The last thing i wanted was them to die.. i listen to what everyone said, read as much as i could about the lifecycle, methods ect.. I'd rather be yelled at if I'm doing something that will harm anything so I can stop. I did the best i could.. They just came in sooooo infested.. then it went thro its cycle in my tank and multiplied like crazy and sadly got everyone... I really thought the tangs were going to make it... they were clearing up and doing great, eating garlic and everything.. then all of a sudden it cycled again and they got covered again, and so did the clowns... its weird, the bangaii didnt eat any garlic, was rubbing up against and sleeping sandwiched in between the two tangs.. but he is totally fine.. he has maybe 3 or 4 spots on the tip of his front fins. Hes not breathing heavy or anything. The male clown is still covered.. i noticed some spots falling off of his body today, but his scales are soo messed up and scarred... he is still breathing heavy, but is still eating little bits, not as much as usual.. but hes trying.
For the cupamine copper treatment.. it said to add 2 drops per gallon of water.. then test levels 48 hours later.... It says its suppose to be at .5 or .6... It is barely even reading .25.. So i added more this morning, and tonight I just tested again, still says .25 barely.. the color is soo faint. But the ammonia is inbetween .25 and .5 ppm but closer to the .25 color. (API copper test kit) I had a bubble strip going to keep up the ph and give some more oxygen for the fish struggling to breathe. Not sure if the added oxygen is breaking down the copper and making ammonia some how?? The tank is bare, no sand or anything, just a plastic pvc L-shape to provide some hiding. So i just hung on a filter with foam and some Fluval Biomax things (white cylindars with a hole in the center) It says they absorb nitrates and ammonia. I just started this today, and its helping to move some water around. I shut off the bubble strip(dont want to get popeye either). I know carbon will take out the copper. I do not have any carbon in the filter. any ideas why the copper is still low and the ammonia went up?
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walzy444
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Thanks, by the way, the favia is doing great, first I had it halfway up, but it seemed to sensitive and lost a little more color. So i then moved it to the sand. Ive been feeding it the color enhancing phyto stuff (like I have with my bleached acan, that is now a maroon color and developing dark green. It was a faint pink!) It seems to be darkening in color around the edges and sides
The sailfin tang also cleaned all the algae off it the first day she was in the tank. I love the little fan worm things in it, reaching out and grabbing for particles in the water.FWIW and IMO....I would have to say that many folks use hypo salinity is that lowering the salinity level over a few days to 1.009 is alot less stressful than using copper. Not having a very very accurate copper test kit can prove fatal to the sick fish. Many species of fish cannot even tolerate a copper treatment such as angels. Sorry for your losses...
Yanni
Non-member
I totally forgot about the worms, I love the way they feed also. Im glad its coloring up for you, it should get a nice red color over time. I hope things get better for you, like i said we all lose things( more than most would probably admit), but with every mistake you learn a bit more. Look at it this way, now you can go fish shopping again
Peegz1
Non-member
Sarah,
I gave you the advice which wouldn't stress out your fish. My tangs have been with me for seven years now. The fish stressed when entered in the new system (which is very common for tangs) and developed ich. Keeping the fish eating is the main goal. The fish will recover. All the other methods of treatment can severely stress the fish and other inhabitants out even more. I wouldn't treat with copper at all. I prefer natural methods than chemical. host, pathogen enviroment www.daff.gov.au/.../host-path-environ.jpg..
Wish you well with further Reef Keeping.
I gave you the advice which wouldn't stress out your fish. My tangs have been with me for seven years now. The fish stressed when entered in the new system (which is very common for tangs) and developed ich. Keeping the fish eating is the main goal. The fish will recover. All the other methods of treatment can severely stress the fish and other inhabitants out even more. I wouldn't treat with copper at all. I prefer natural methods than chemical. host, pathogen enviroment www.daff.gov.au/.../host-path-environ.jpg..
Wish you well with further Reef Keeping.
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walzy444
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I tried doing it naturally, they were eating great. Then bam it recycled and everyone took a turn for the worse and most stopped eating. So I got them all out. As stress free as possible. Coaxing them into the net with food. My clowns are so use to my hands they pretty much let me pick them up. The sailfin swam into the net getting food and the bangaii is pretty slow. The yellow tang was hard to get out. I would have continued the natural treatment if it wasn't for my clown dying...And everyone being completely covered.
It sux, this happens all too often. The fish look so bad so fast, that the reefkeeper is/feels forced to choose between stressing them more to try to treat right away, or leaving them be and hoping they start to get better before dying.
Your infection did look really bad. I have had very good luck with treatments, but I never started with fish that heavily infected.
Your infection did look really bad. I have had very good luck with treatments, but I never started with fish that heavily infected.
Agreed,
and to add; when doing hypo treatment, you MUST use a reccently calibrated refractometer. Swing arm hydrometers are not accurate enough.
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walzy444
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Yeah they were covered. I do have a refractometer. Black clown is on his side, he's going to die tonight... 99% of the spots fell off of him, but he has big sores/bruise type things all over him. It looks so painfull, and he was swimming into the glass and bottom.. the bangaii is still totally fine. Still in copper. Anyone have any idea why the ammonia is up?
the bangaii is still totally fine. Still in copper. Anyone have any idea why the ammonia is up?I would think your seeing ammonia because there is little to no biological filter in the QT. Yet another way that QT / treatment can be super stressful / risky. Ideally you get to start with a pre cycled QT, but in your case this all happened too fast.
Adding some amquel (ammonia de-toxifiier stuff) wouldn't be a bad idea if your getting an ammonia reading.
Adding some amquel (ammonia de-toxifiier stuff) wouldn't be a bad idea if your getting an ammonia reading.
