charbel1011
Well-Known Member
I took that approach in the morning time, and it kept getting worse. Idk how the wave makers connected to the system its very puzzlingSounds like something I would try to ignore and trust to "average out"
Waterbox destroyed me again… *EMERGENCY*
- Thread starter charbel1011
- Start date
BiGGiePauls33
Current BRS President
Who set the system up? I'd hit up @Sponsor to see if they can get it straightened out. This hobby is supposed to be enjoyable.
charbel1011
Well-Known Member
All things aquatics helped deliver the tank, and put it on the stand. I am going to be honest i cannot afford their hourly rate right now.
DylanCameron
Treasurer/BOD 2023
Maybe I’m missing something because I still don’t understand how this could happen. Here is my train of thought: your main drain is set using the gate valve, this rate should not change. The speed of your return pump should also remain constant, which allows the water level in the overflow to remain level under normal conditions.
If the wavemakers are temporarily increasing the water height in your display, causing more water to go into the overflow, it will level out as long as nothing goes down the emergency (because GPH into display = GPH out of display). Now, if the surge is so large that some water is going down the emergency, you lose some water volume in the overflow (because the GPH out of display temporarily exceeds the GPH into the display) once the surge is over. So I understand why the water height in your overflow drops, but what I don’t understand is why the water level in your sump is also dropping and triggering the ATO. In this scenario I would expect the water level in your sump to actually increase.
I know I’m not really offering a solution here, I’m just trying to get a better idea of what’s happening. I wish I could swing by and see your system in person, but unfortunately I no longer live in MA. Like you said in the first sentence I quoted, you’re pushing more water to the drain, which should increase sump water level. Any shot you can take a video of this happening?
charbel1011
Well-Known Member
Ill get a video tomorrow morning. But i could never keep my emergency 100% dry. As i mentioned here before even after increasing the emergency pipe height after having different issues, i get some splashes down there occasionally. Unless you tell me the emegency pipe should be dry 100% all the time? Then i dont know.
BiGGiePauls33
Current BRS President
I hear ya there. Haven't had steady income in over a year. Is there anyone in the southcoast area that can swing over to @charbel1011 house to help him figure out WTH is happening with this system. I can't wrap my head around what's going on and know I'm not the only one. This has been posted on R2R and Social media groups and everyone doesn't understand either.
DylanCameron
Treasurer/BOD 2023
A little bit of water trickling down is fine but it shouldn’t cause this much of an issue. Were you able to find anyone else who had this problem?
charbel1011
Well-Known Member
O
One guy and he said he couldnt fix it and left if. Lol i guess i should do the same. Btw thats how much water trickles down the overflow. But man its super quiet
I think you might be taking the %100 dry part to heart a little too much. It’s recommended that way because if reefers tune their drains so there’s a constant trickle in their emergency, it’s like an open invitation for a (perfectly sized) snail to crawl in and then create a (perfect) blockage - which would result in a flood in said set up that’s relying on that constant flow escaping into the emergency.
Dylan just explained my “trust it to average out” concept in excellent detail. I think this is where you’re at .
The splash into the emergency is only a problem as much as the noise is annoying. Splashes are fine in this context, you just don’t want a waterfall in there.
Edit I should say, I’ve personally been known to advocate for or push the “%100 dry emergency” thing. Reasoning never changed, it’s just that you actually have listened to the warnings that so many tend to ignore….
Dylan just explained my “trust it to average out” concept in excellent detail.
I think this is where you’re at .The splash into the emergency is only a problem as much as the noise is annoying. Splashes are fine in this context, you just don’t want a waterfall in there.
Edit I should say, I’ve personally been known to advocate for or push the “%100 dry emergency” thing. Reasoning never changed, it’s just that you actually have listened to the warnings that so many tend to ignore….
DylanCameron
Treasurer/BOD 2023
I would open your gate valve just a bit to avoid this trickle. Can you take a video of the MP40s causing your overflow to drop and trigger your ATO? That’s still stumping me
charbel1011
Well-Known Member
Alright i did a video. Its 3 videos. Because i have to change modes on my mp40s. I had to do 3 videos
1-https://youtube.com/shorts/ZAUL6DFThsY?feature=shared
2-https://youtu.be/0Yi6RNoUpiI?feature=shared
3-https://youtu.be/cErDsHXZrPs?feature=shared
The ato was about to evaporate anyway. But even if it wasnt going to evaporate it will drop it down and trigger it to run. And also constant mode. Would fill it back above the sensor. So tell me thats not crazy?
U can tell at constant mode it filled the ato a little but because i had the speed at constant 55%. It didnt fill above it. And i didnt want to do it in the video because i dont want to have excessive water above the sensor.
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DylanCameron
Treasurer/BOD 2023
That’s weird and it’s going to bother me that I can’t figure out what’s causing this, but I can assure you that such a small change in water height is going to have an incredibly small change in salinity. It seems like it’s only a few mm or cm of difference, and that’s only in a single small compartment in your sump, and over the course of the day everything will even out. Keep in mind that salinity in the ocean changes somewhat as well (due to currents, rain, runoff, things like that), and if this were my tank I probably wouldn’t bat an eye.
thrillreefer
Well-Known Member
It might be a surface tension thing. You get more turbulence at the surface with higher flow so the meniscus above your overflow weir will be a bit more disturbed and will not be able to be stable at the same height. Which leads to tiny bit lower water level in the display, and a bit higher in the overflow box. Agree that this will not affect your inhabitants in the least due to minuscule changes in salinity from ATO going on or off. Likewise I’d expect no salient differences on skimmer performance due to water height in the sump.
Would reconsider your classification of any of this as an “Emergency!” Just normal (though sometimes endlessly frustrating) troubleshooting and tinkering.
Would reconsider your classification of any of this as an “Emergency!” Just normal (though sometimes endlessly frustrating) troubleshooting and tinkering.
charbel1011
Well-Known Member
This wasnt the emergency. The emergency was before i raised my emergency height and it was annoying my existence
The ATO will get wrapped into "averaging out". It will run when the flow ebbs low, and turn off when flowing higher, overall the actual level will balance out somewhere in this up/down cycle. It will turn off more than it would normally need to, but find that balance somewhere and then stay there.
charbel1011
Well-Known Member
I just want to keep this video here for the people that might struggle in the future.
I was able to fix the issue by contacting ecotech. They helped me reset my pump factory reset it calibrate it. And also add it to a different profile as a new tank. Seperating it from my wave makers. They told me there was interference between the return pump, and the wave makers, faulty programming that ramps up and down with the mp40s, and the return pump as once even though it wont show in the settings speed scale. I did that. And it worked. At 78% speed no problem and higher had no effect.
There was also the mxm connected for apex, even though it wasnt controlling any of my devices i had to delete it, ill figure that part for later on. And also i had a vectra s2, that also was failing calibration i had to delete and factory reset it but this pump is for my closed loop UV. I heard horror stories about
Mobius before, but never expected in my life to face so many issues.
So for the people. (from the future) struggling with this weird issue. Thats your fix. As you can tell also my flow from the top looks 10x better with the wave makers at 55%. I feel confident with my flow. I bumped the speed for my return pump from 50% to 60% and that also helped keeping the overflow line more consistent. Because we also do not keep in mind the head pressure loss at 60%. Its way better for my system, and also quiet. And have 0 interference.
charbel1011
Well-Known Member
Abort what i said still happening. I changed the wave maker placement. And still happening i just gotta accept it and move on
charbel1011
Well-Known Member
Actually nevermind. I took the emergency pipe coupler. The sound is getting worse. I quit this hobby. And i am about to sell my tank. Unfortunately nothing is working for me. Even with the coupler the sound was getting louder, and was still getting waterfall in. The whole waterbox tank is not a good system unfortunately.
I just want to thank everyone who helped me witj the tank.
i know everyone here is getting tired of my issues. But if i wasnt struggling from my emergency pipe to all this stuff happening to me i wouldnt say anything
DylanCameron
Treasurer/BOD 2023
Have you tried contacting waterbox directly about the problem? This is a great hobby and we’d hate to see you go, but having a tank should be a source of enjoyment, not stress.
charbel1011
Well-Known Member
They said they are going to send me spare parts to fix it. honesty dude it's crazy
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