10 gallon FOWLR

[barteri]

Hello,

I'm looking to setup a 10 gallon FOWLR tank. I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice. I'm new to saltwater but I've been keeping Freshwater fish with live plants for about a decade now.

Yes, I know. I know. The 10 gallon is probably too small for a newbie but I don't really have much of a choice. I have limited space to put the tank and I really want to give saltwater a try.

As for equipment, I plan to go with the following
* Standard 10 gallon tank (Aqueon All Glass)
* Incandescent hood with two 10W coralife 50/50 bulbs http://www.amazon.com/Coralife-Compact-Fluorescent-Colormax-10-Watt/dp/B0002AQ44O
* Aquaclear 30 Power Filter
* Live Sand (Not sure where to get this)
* Live Rock (Not sure how much and where to get this) Maybe 10lbs?
* 50W Marineland Stealth Heater
* Hydrometer - Not sure which brand is good

I'm not entirely sure if I should get a protein skimmer or a power head. For a such a small tank, I'm not sure if it's worth it.

As for livestock, I imagine, I could only a few critters and about 1 -2 small fish. Leaning towards 2 clown fish. Any suggestions?

I'm looking for any advice on how to get to started and maintain such a tank.

Thanks.

 

[ahmer1781]

Wow, I think you're brave to attempt such a small saltwater tank, everything I have read really suggests going bigger, especially for a beginner...

 

[Owen386]

Would you be able to run a sump at all this would really help out with water stability. Definitely get a controller to control temp. An a.t.o is also a must. Other than that keep an eye on parameters constantly as fluctuation on a tank that small can be a killer.

Can I suggest thinking about going reef simple zoas and mushroom etc.. as if it were me I would tire of just fish in such a small tank.
Also look into some other nano tanks other than the plane Jane aqueon. There are some pretty nanos out there that have almost got me to set up another tank. Some with inclusive filtration.

Good luck in your venture.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[barteri]

Sorry, no space for a sump. I wasn't even thinking corals. But as you said, it could get boring if it was just fish and critters but I'll worry about that later if I am successful at getting a simple saltwater tank up.

 

[STiTCH87]

Wow, I think you're brave to attempt such a small saltwater tank, everything I have read really suggests going bigger, especially for a beginner...

My 5g pico is the easiest saltwater tank i've ever run and it's a mixed reef. Honestly wish I had started it from the beginning as my 29g was a failure and my 40g is very high maintenance.

You'd be surprised what you can do with a simple RKL controller, heater, and an IceProbe chiller Maybe an ATO ( personally don't use one). Tank runs itself.

Barteri, PM me and I can give you awesome pointers on running a tank that small cheaply and efficiently and step by step i'll help you get up and running and learning everything you need.

I also suggest you look into the Fluval Spec 8 Gallon or Innovative Marine 8 or even Nuvo 16 if you have the cash. Great starting point and it's all-in-one.

Better to start with good filtration and better lighting than incandescent bulbs which grow algae like mad.

Give me your goal and price range and i'll get you a shopping list and up and running in no time.

 

[barteri]

Stitch, I will definitely contact you for advice. Yes, I have been thinking going with the Fluval but that was for planted freshwater plant. From the reviews, I heard that the Fluval was difficult to clean and maintain but maybe that just the Freshwater version.

 

[bonghapster]

I have a 4 gallon evolve mixed reef at work. very easy tank, no sump, par38 bulb. manual top-off and weekly water change keeps everything in line.

 

[jarrodsanborn]

Back when i was into nano tanks, the 10g and 3g i had were awesome. Thinking back on it, just like stich, they were my easiest tanks ive had.

The 2 most important things i learned when i had the small tanks was: auto top off of some form is mandatory, and water changes are the cure all for any issue.

for a auto top off, on the small tanks, i used a simple rabbit water bottle with the ball removed. attach a 2" hose to the end of the water tube, and barely submerge it in your tank. As your water level drops, air will get into the bottle, and allow the fresh water to go into the tank. You could also just use a simple drip system, but you would have to monitor it more often. Obviously, you could use one of the "real" auto top off kits on the market, but im cheap.

Water changes, i did 2-3g a week when i was running my 10g. I had tons of coral, and 3 fish(overstocked, 2 clowns, and a clown gobie). I never had any issues with water parameters.....EVER! Just make sure to match salinity and temperature before doing large changes like that.

flow is harder to do in smaller tanks, and i wouldnt use the typical 20x-30x flow for reef, 10x flow for fowlr numbers. It never seemed to cut it on the small tanks. The hob filter will work, but i would consider adding a koralia nano pump, or another larger hob filter like a aquaclear 70.

sand and rock: get some from local reefers for a good deal, or get some marco rock to start fresh if you are nervous about pests. There is NO REASON to spend a ton of money when starting out, and local reefers can help keep the costs down.

Avoid the stealth heaters. They have a bad reputation for killing tanks when they go bad.

I used the 50/50 screw in bulbs like you mention for a while, and they worked.....but output was low, and the bulbs are expensive. consider upgrading in the future to 1 or 2 of these. http://www.boostled.com/product_p/par30.htm
You will still have to hang it over the tank somehow, or use a clamp on light(i did) . These will sustain pretty much any coral in a small tank like yours. If you use 1, get 80* optics, and keep your coral close to the center half(left to right) of the tank near the light. If you use 2, i still recommend 80* optics, but the lights will cover the whole tank and you can place coral anywhere.

let us know if you have any more questions. Im sure that between the club, stich and I, we can write a book for ya lol.

 

[barteri]

Yeah, I'm not too thrilled about the Stealth heaters either. I currently use them in my planted Freshwater 10 gallon and temperature fluctuates from 75 to 82. Probably explains why I get some of that brown fur algae from time to time. Of course, I don't have a chiller in my freshwater tank but I guess I need to worry about that now. Talking to Stich, I'm leaning towards Innovative Marine 16 Gallon if it fits my area. It's freaking expensive but looks nice. Any recommendations for a heater?

And what is with the flow requirement? I never head to put a power head in my freshwater tanks. Usually the HOB filter is enough. I take it the filter in the Marine 16 is good enough?

As for the sand, can I just use the home depot play sand or do I have to go with the Cariib Sea stuff?

I don't hear a lot requirements for a protein skimmers for nano tanks. I take it's not necessary? I always thought a good protein skimmer was the secret to success in a saltwater tank.

 

[STiTCH87]

If you want to go cheaper than the Nuvo 16, you can buy a 15g tank at Petco or similar for fairly cheap, i'd guess maybe $30 (they don't include the 15g in the dollar per gallon sale IIRC).
Then slap a Tetra Whisper filter or Aquaclear on the back rated for a 20-30g tank and but a korlia nano or fluval sea or tiny tunze pump in there for added circulation.
Whatever you find with the smallest in tank footprint since space is an issue in there.
As for lighting i'd suggest two clamp lamps running two PAR38 bulbs though that's around $250 total so there are other options around that price range too that we can help you consider.
Get a Eheim heater, as far as i'm concerned, it's the only company that makes heaters worth buying.
A reefkeeperlite to control the heater and get a clamp on desk fan to blow across the water to keep temp cool on warm days (you'd be amazed how well a simple fan works).
And a 20 pound bag of caribsea aragonite sand. I'd say go with dry sand cuz live sand is a rip off as anything living is pretty much dead and it's so simple to seed dry sand anyways.
Just if it's dry, get some live sand from a member on here like a cup worth to seed the other sand.
I highly suggest you rinse the sand if you can and pour out any dust it produces from a bucket you rinse it in, this can greatly reduce dust plumes in your tank if the sand bed is ever stirred from fish or inverts down the line.
Do note with or without a rinse, the sand WILL cloud your water for a day or so no matter how you add it before or after the water.

Keep in mind, if you don't go with an All-In-One tank, the surface of your water will not get skimmed into any filtration and as a result, it will look cloudy and nasty very quickly, like after 3-4 days even.
This can be a good thing technically as it helps you tell how dirty your water in the tank is, but at the same time, it should realistically never be too dirty anyways,
and also (not positive) but I would think a dirty film on the surface of the water would affect the lighting into the tank. Maybe not, idk. But it's something to consider.

I'd say on a nano that skimmers are not really needed at all. 29g and up, I highly highly recommend one, but on smaller tanks a waterchange is better.
Realistically IMO, a waterchange > any skimmer anyways. Solution for pollution is dilution. I view a skimmer as something to help maintain water quality between water changes.
But on a 16g or 15g, a 4g waterchange or even 5g (5g would be easier considering buckets are 5g) it will do a world of difference weekly as far as keeping the water clear goes.

Also, everything jarrodsanborn said is spot on. I agree with his entire post 100%.

I have a thread in the Photography section that completely explains my 5g Pico setup and everything I do to run it down to the nitty gritty and you'll see how simple it can be to run small tanks as long as you have the right supplies.

As far as tank and hardware goes I'd say I have about $400 invested into my 5g pico total not including rock, sand, and livestock. That's including the $100 controller and the $100 chiller.

 

[jarrodsanborn]

lol, my 3g jbj pico was way cheaper than that!
tank plus useless light and pump-$45
clamp lamp $5
rabbit bottle top off $5
par 30 $45
5lbs of rock $15
5 lbs of sand $10
fish, corals, invertebrates, etc, $75
total cost roughly $200

10g
same as above but add $130 for an extra powerhead, and another clamp par 30 light because i wanted to do some sps and other high light critters.

I know an guy living in a nursing home. he has a 10g tank kit with 2 (10-12yr old)clowns, 10w incandescent bulb, hob filter, 5 lbs of rock, and a handful of sand. That is all he wants, nothing more. Not everyone Wants a huge tank with a billion corals and animals and a huge $$$$ bill. He loves his 2 clowns, and im sure if the fish die, it will literally kill him......


Marine tanks require lots of flow. fresh does not. Dont skimp on flow, 20x tank volume(200gph for 10g as a minimum) When my 10g tank had filled in with corals, i was using about 800gph to avoid dead spots and settling waste.

Sand, yes you can use play sand if you like the look, but caribsea or other aragonite sands generally look better and dont cost a ton. Maybe just ask some people here for some sand? If you lived in NH id give you 10lbs of sand, and some rubble rock for free.

 

[STiTCH87]

^jarrodsanborn, only reason mine was so expensive is because I got a lot of quality stuff for it.

The tank I bought new costs $100 but has a usable pump with it (i also added the $15 tetra filter from petco)
and the lights are LEDs that work great, not the usual PC so I kept that.

Tank $100
Heater $20
Filter $15
Live Sand $20 (Roughly 15 pounds I think? i have a 3-4" DSB)
Live Rock $20 (I have ~10 pounds of LR IIRC)
livestock> tailspot blenny $20, cleaner shrimp $25, yasha goby $50, pistol shrimps $20 for two
leather, 2 acans frags, blastomussa, ricordia> $80
reef keeper lite $100
iceprobe chiller $100
fan $5

The reason my tank cost more is because it is bigger, with more expensive livestock and has a controller and chiller.
Plus buying everything new and not used kinda hit me hard too, my dumb mistake.

Without the controller, chiller, and expensive livestock, it's really only not even $200. I chose to make it expensive because it means it is that much more stable and maintenance-free.

=] Not trying to argue, just saying, you can have a pico for $100 and a pico for $800, same size, but guess which one looks better as is easier to upkeep.

 

[barteri]

So you guys don't think the Nuvo is worth it?

 

[STiTCH87]

I personally think it is. I have been actually planning on buying one for half a year now and the only reason I haven't is because my pico is running so perfectly that i'm afraid to break it down and try to reset it in a 16g without any ill effects.

IMO any All-In-One tank is worth it more or less for the fact alone that it surface skims and has a spot in the back for filtration media to run a bag of carbon and/or chemi-pure (i'm against chemi-pure personally but to each their own).

All of Chris Delicath's tanks at PiCoAquariums are spectacular too and very well-priced if you wanna check his stuff out.

http://picoaquariums.com/en/

And his tanks come with great lighting, great filtration, great flow. It's hand-made quality stuff in the USA and i've spoken with him many many times. Awesome guy.

The only downside is that currently he only makes cubes which may or may not be what you're looking for.

He does custom tanks but it'll cost you.

Also check out CADLights tanks over at: http://www.cadlights.com/
The CADLights 8g and 18g tanks are super legit.

 

[barteri]

Ok, I am going to bite the bullet and get the Nuvo 16. Consider it my birthday gift. Any reputable sites that I should buy it from? I don't think I can find this in any local store.

 

[STiTCH87]

There are some stores in Mass that carry them though none come to mind. As far as I know Marine Depot has them for the cheapest and they're an awesome business. Just make sure you get one that has a light on it and not just the tank. Don't need a crazy light for a fowlr, stock will be fine. I'd post a link but I'm on my phone.

 

[rmleal]

pics?

 

[barteri]

Marine Depot seems to charge shipping for the item. Which is a lot.
Aquacave and TD Aquatics also carry it.
There's a black and white one
http://www.aquacave.com/Nuvo-Nano-16-White-Aquarium-Kit-by-Innovative-Marine-P3298.aspx
http://www.aquacave.com/Nuvo-Nano-16-Black-14000K-Aquarium-Kit-by-Innovative-Marine-P3299.aspx
Kind of leaning towards the white one. Although online does seem to say the black looks sleeker.

 

[STiTCH87]

Marine Depot only charges $12 to ship it.
http://www.marinedepot.com/Innovative_Marine_16_Gallon_Nano_Aquarium_w_2_x_8_Watt_14000K_Skkye_Light_Clamp_LED_Light_Nano_Tank_with_Lighting_10_19_Gallons-Innovative_Marine-0I10214-FIAQNCCKTLTN-vi.html
$362 total with shipping.
It's the same shipping through AquaCave too. That's a pretty universal set price for it. I personally like Marine Depot but i've heard decent things about AquaCave too.
I think they're a sponsor on here for us.

Be careful about the white because it will show algae film way sooner and uglier than a film would look on black.
Just my .02 cents

And make sure you get the 14k because the 10k lights are more for a planted freshwater tank.
I've seen both in person and can tell you for certain the black does look much more sleek and sophisticated.
Being shiny black acrylic though, be careful wiping the black pieces down and careful what you use to do so because overtime the acrylic can get surface swirls like a car.

 

[barteri]

you're right. I guess I did not read the fine print on aquacave's shipping costs.
For the RKL is the basic version shown below good enough?
http://www.marinedepot.com/Digital_...iums-Digital_Aquatics-DA1131-FITEMOMI-vi.html