Frustrated with LFS prices and quality

[ScottM]

This statement strikes me as a little offensive. The question here isn't whether you can afford it or not. It's whether it's worth it to buy from an LFS.

For some people maybe not, and maybe they take some offense to the comment, but it sure rings true to alot of people i see post on the forums (not just the BRS)
How often do you see someone post that they can't afford to spend money for the right equipment to keep the animals they buy. How often to you go to a meeting and find people talk about how they are "unable to afford" adequate equipment for the livestock they keep? I see it A LOT.

for once i have to agree with Rich (shocking i am sure)
i am not suggesting to support a LFS that charges an enormous amounts of money for things. a blank check attitude is not the point i was making.

Overcharging happens in every store on one item or another, but i do realize that their purchase costs may be very different from someone else as well as thier operating costs..... does that mean i call them out in a public forum? Its certainly seems like the thing to do in the BRS. I am not a LFS, bu i can only imagine what our LFS think day in and day out as they read this forum...


Value translates to a price you are or are not willing to spend.
I find value in an LFS for my own reasons. others will have very different reasons, but in the end finding value in an LFS is an individual choice.
some will find it, others will not, but does that mean a LFS gets trashed for it?
and somehow in the BRS, trashing them seems to be a heated, but acceptable action.

 

[Alex]

Value translates to a price you are or are not willing to spend.
I find value in an LFS for my own reasons. others will have very different reasons, but in the end finding value in an LFS is an individual choice.
some will find it, others will not, but does that mean a LFS gets trashed for it?
and somehow in the BRS, trashing them seems to be a heated, but acceptable action.

What one person views as trashing others might view as constructive criticism.

 

[sdexcalibur1]

I went to a local one 2 weeks ago for a Maxijet 1200 online they run $18.99, at the local LFS ~$35! Almost double! Needless to say I walked in, and walked right out...

35 dollars, 35 dollars, HA I made a trip up 495 about 45 min from my house and saw a maxijet 1200 for 42.00, The store was really nice with lots of great tanks, but @ 30+for a sm yellow tang and around 50+ for a lg. one. I felt the trip was in vain.
Steve

 

[Chris L]

something else to keep in mind is that the share volume makes a huge difference in price. a local lfs has to charge more due to the overhead and smaller volume of business when an online vendor can sell for less because there audience is a much larger scale ( most cases all over the world ) so they can charge less because there sales volumes are much higher. in other words they still make money because they will sell 1000 yellow tangs when a lfs might sell a couple dozen.

 

[dz6t]

Please don't take it offensive,
Try to imagine a LFS post a sign saying "we have to charge you $42 for a maxi-jet and $50 for a yellow tang because we have higher than online overhead and less sale volumn, please buy from us and support us..."
Where is the logic here? may be this LFS should not sell maxi-jet or yellow tang.

Do you really think they put a $42 maxijet on their shelfs is meant for educated buyers wh once in a blue moon that need one right away? no, it is for those naive buyers.

Do you think the $50 yellow tang is for people who know that they can get the same thing for $25 ($14 on sale) in Petco? no, the tang is there for naive buyers.

Do you think a high rating (from BRS) LFS stock $20 (from Petco , another local store chain) air driven skimmer and sell it for $50 is for educated buyers? No, it is for naive buyers.

Why BRS members are not LFS's bread and butter customers (far from that actually)? Becasue most of us are not naive customers.

Why we are branded as "Boston Cheapers"? Because it is harder to get high profit form the "Boston Cheapers".

 

[Reefdweller]

As the originator of this thread I would like to chime in here. My original post was mostly directed at one store in particular which I felt provided poor quality and outragous prices on livestock and drygoods. I did not mean to implicate all LFS, although I would say that to some degree most have a similar problem. I'm glad I started this thread becuase it obviously touched on a nerve of a lot of people.

The one point we all really need to consider is what is the future of our industry will be. As a kid, I had saltwater fish and I can tell you that there are a lot more people today who have SW and reef tanks then they did back then. The difference today is that there is much more equipment and we can now grow corals in captivity. The improvement in equipment obviously leads to higher costs and so as many ahve said this is not a cheap hobby. That, however does not justify paying something for nothing. I think we woudl all be willing to apy a higher price at the LFS if we got value for our money ( e.g, advice, guarantees, selection, healty speciments, unique speciments). This is how the LFS can compete. To the few LFS that I frequent, I actually liekt o ahng out there and see what's new. I'm willing to pay a reasonable amoutn extra for that.

The big difference in the hobby today and back when I was a kid, is you can now keep fish for a long time and also can propogate corals. This means that we shoudl not ahve to apy alot for those corals that are easily propogated. Thus, there is no reason to spend $80 buying most corals when another BRS member can grow the same coral and provide a frag for alot less. There is no reason today that LFS can't have a propogation room and grow most of the corals they sell. If they don't have th knowhow or don't want to do this, then they should buy from a supplier that can provide quality corals cheap. How do you justify $80 for a monti cap frag when I have them breaking off every other week. Let's be reasonable here. If a LFS has to pay more than we can buy an item for, he is beign ripped off and shoudl complain to hsi distributer. Remember, it's a free market and the market sets the price. That means us. If the LFS decide to ignore us, that's fine, but I guarantee some entrepreneurial reefer will set up a business somewhere and make a killing on what could have been the LFS's business.


There's only oen thing we want and deserve- "Value for our Money". This means quality, selection, and costs. The model of catering to the nieve consumer is not a long term business model.

 

[Chris L]

dong no offense taken, but your argument does not make much sense here. have you ever owned or operated a retail store? do you know what the cost is in keeping it open? have you ever had to deal with the wholesale end of the marine industry? volume absolutely dictates the ultimate pricing. i am not saying some lfs are not higher then others. but that it is there right to charge $10 or $100 for a yellow tang just like it is your right to buy it or not.
i am seeing more and more post about people complaining about prices when you have so many other options to choose from. but i see no point in a constant lfs bashing here on the boards. it is very simple shop where you want and dont worry about the places you dont. i do not see post about bad costumers everytime someone goes in a lfs with a stupid question so show them the same courtesy

 

[dz6t]

but I guarantee some entrepreneurial reefer will set up a business somewhere and make a killing on what could have been the LFS's business.
.

They are called "Liveaquaria" and they have the largest coral farm in the country. They also have the best slelction of coral and fish. Also, "ultimate frags" and "reeftopia" to name a few. I am wondering why nobody pick on those "Ultimate frags" pooled orders and frag drafts.

 

[Chris L]

They are called "Liveaquaria" and they have the largest coral farm in the country. They also have the best slelction of coral and fish. Also, "ultimate frags" and "reeftopia" to name a few. I am wondering why nobody pick on those "Ultimate frags" pooled orders and frag drafts.

there is actually a local lfs suppling a frag draft in souther nh.

 

[stevenp]

I think it all comes down to supply and demand. While I'm on board with the masses here, we can't blame the LFS's for concentrating on the market in which they make their most profit.

Fortunatly for us, we know of more economical sources for certain products.

Steve

 

[dz6t]

dong no offense taken, but your argument does not make much sense here. have you ever owned or operated a retail store? do you know what the cost is in keeping it open? have you ever had to deal with the wholesale end of the marine industry? volume absolutely dictates the ultimate pricing. i am not saying some lfs are not higher then others. but that it is there right to charge $10 or $100 for a yellow tang just like it is your right to buy it or not.
i am seeing more and more post about people complaining about prices when you have so many other options to choose from. but i see no point in a constant lfs bashing here on the boards. it is very simple shop where you want and dont worry about the places you dont. i do not see post about bad costumers everytime someone goes in a lfs with a stupid question so show them the same courtesy

I totally understand your points. When people stop telling me to "support the LFS", I will stop to telling them why I choose not to support some LFS. I do buy from LFS, only from the ones I trust.

Why people complain about gas price?

 

[dz6t]

there is actually a local lfs suppling a frag draft in souther nh.

once? twice?

 

[Chris L]

I think it all comes down to supply and demand. While I'm on board with the masses here, we can't blame the LFS's for concentrating on the market in which they make their most profit.

Fortunatly for us, we know of more economical sources for certain products.

Steve

steve that is part of what i am saying. we all have choices, both the lfs and the consumer. if you dont give your business to a lfs then it is there loss not yours so why complain about it( not refering to you steve but in general ). you are getting what you want cheaper so just be happy

 

[Chris L]

once? twice?

better then 0

 

[stevenp]

steve that is part of what i am saying. we all have choices, both the lfs and the consumer. if you dont give your business to a lfs then it is there loss not yours so why complain about it( not refering to you steve but in general ). you are getting what you want cheaper so just be happy

I hear ya, it just feels good to vent sometimes We all know this 'hobby' can drive a man to insanity!

Steve

 

[dz6t]

better then 0

I agree

 

[rjdudek]

Chris, I see this same argument frequently: There is a bottom to the bulk buy discounts. Ordering larger volume can only press the price down so low. Cost of goods is the cost. LA may clip the wholesale back to 15 points over cost, but from someone who has run boths sides of the equation I can tell you the wholesaler will not sell at a loss, even if you offer to buy millions of units.

 

[chrisc]

if you dont give your business to a lfs then it is there loss not yours so why complain about it( not refering to you steve but in general ). you are getting what you want cheaper so just be happy

I think people complain so the LFS' listen to the unhappy customers and take steps to address what concerns that they can, if they can. Does that mean drop their prices 50% and operate at a loss? Of course not.

Or they complain because they just like to b**** and moan.

I would hope they complain for the former reason rather than the later

 

[Chris L]

I think people complain so the LFS' listen to the unhappy customers and take steps to address what concerns that they can, if they can. Does that mean drop their prices 50% and operate at a loss? Of course not.

Or they complain because they just like to b**** and moan.

I would hope they complain for the former reason rather than the later

agreed if it is done tastefully and respectfully. if i was being bashed i would not go out of my way to accomadate that individual

 

[Chris L]

Chris, I see this same argument frequently: There is a bottom to the bulk buy discounts. Ordering larger volume can only press the price down so low. Cost of goods is the cost. LA may clip the wholesale back to 15 points over cost, but from someone who has run boths sides of the equation I can tell you the wholesaler will not sell at a loss, even if you offer to buy millions of units.

no not at a loss, but being from both sides of the equation you have to agree that the larger volume dealers can do lower prices because of volume. and smaller retailers can not always compare with that price wise