help! ammonia spike...

[NateHanson]

I'd move them to a bigger tank. It could be a week or two before your tank is done cycling.

Nate

 

[starrfish]

I agree with Nate. You really don't know how long it's going to be before the cycle is done and keeping all those big fish in that small 10g isn't going to work. Just do the 30g rubbermaid thing, but make sure you have some biological filtration in it. Have you tested the ammonia in the 10g? I wouldn't be surprised if it's climbing there too - even if you are doing daily water changes. I would definitely use Prime or Amquel in this small tank with all those fish.

 

[mano1192]

I wouldnt really worry about stressing out your fish with moves unless your dumping them out of buckets or something, I have moved 4 times in the last 3.5 years and never lost a single fish... nock on wood...
How long has your sand bed been established for? Just asking because syphining out your sand bed in a well established tank (2+ years) will release major junk into your tank that should stay in the lower levels of the bed and never be russlted up unless you are changing your bed i.m.o. Since I've gone to a sand bed Ive never syphened it, not sure if other people do. Good luck with everything!

 

[mano1192]

PS. If you want to speed up your amonia drop go out and buy like 3 more powerheads and put sponge over the intakes to create small biological filters and keep airating the crap out of your water, along with lots of water changes! My other tank did a full cycle in 3 weeks like this.

 

[~Flighty~]

They will probably be less stressed in an opeque 30 gal rubbermaid than in a clear 10 gal as soon as you move them.

 

[nickyblase]

UPDATE:

I just put them in a 20 or 25 G rubbermaid. It's got a piece of LR in there (was in the 10G too), a heater & powerhead of course, and also a HOB whisper filter. I did check the ammonia in the 10g, and there was between 0 and .25. Not great, but apparently not stress-inducing (at least in the short term). I will keep a close eye on the params in the tub too.

I can't believe this is happening. Lesson learned about not messing with the sandbed!! I was pretty bummed to see that I lost one chromis and the serpent star, but I guess I am otherwise pretty lucky that the others are still seemingly okay. No signs of physical stress that I can tell. When I put them in the rubbermaid, all continued to swim around and ate when I put some food in.

So is this going to happen like cycling for the first time (i.e. am I soon to expect a nitrite spike as well)?

 

[~Flighty~]

I think it will be more like a regular ammonia spike rather than a cycle or somewhere in between. in a cycle you need to build up the bacteria to handle the amonia and nitrates. For you they are already there, they just are handeling a much bigger load than they had from just the fish. I would throw some macro alge in there and in the tub with the fish to help absorb some of the ammonia nitrates and nitrites (think plant food), but I'm a huge fan of macro.

 

[ReeferMedic]

PS. If you want to speed up your amonia drop go out and buy like 3 more powerheads and put sponge over the intakes to create small biological filters and keep airating the crap out of your water, along with lots of water changes! My other tank did a full cycle in 3 weeks like this.

From what I understand, there is live rock in the tank. I don't think the sponges will do much more than the LR is already doing....

 

[mano1192]

From what I understand, there is live rock in the tank. I don't think the sponges will do much more than the LR is already doing....

it will speed it up thats for sure, once algea grows on the sponges they are basically the same filtration as a piece of LR. I would bump up your temp a couple degrees too since the fish arent in there you dont have to worry about them, this will cause a algea bloom to help get your levels back down, or add in macro if u can get some. the more filtration u can get the better i.m.o. good luck!

 

[NateHanson]

it will speed it up thats for sure, once algea grows on the sponges they are basically the same filtration as a piece of LR. I would bump up your temp a couple degrees too since the fish arent in there you dont have to worry about them, this will cause a algea bloom to help get your levels back down, or add in macro if u can get some. the more filtration u can get the better i.m.o. good luck!

The sponges don't sound like a bad idea, but I'd just add a few warnings. Once they get colonized with denitrifying bacteria, it will do the first two steps of denitrification (Ammonia -> Nitrite -> Nitrate) but unlike Live Rock, it won't convert the Nitrate to Nitrogen Gas. So you'll want to keep an eye on Nitrate levels as the cycle progresses.

The other thing to be careful with when using sponges like that, is that you don't want to remove them all at once, as that will remove a substantial portion of your tank's biological filter, and it could cycle again (again). So take out one sponge each week to ease the transition back to a live rock filtered system.

Nate

 

[conrad]

The other thing to be careful with when using sponges like that, is that you don't want to remove them all at once, as that will remove a substantial portion of your tank's biological filter, and it could cycle again (again). So take out one sponge each week to ease the transition back to a live rock filtered system.

That sounds like excellent advice. And I suspect this is pretty much what happened when you did the mega-cleaning of your sandbed -- you removed too much of your nitrifying bacteria all at once. I believe that theory fits with all the details we have now, and you should expect some sort of cycle in your tank now.

--cn

 

[nickyblase]

Not sure that I will do any sponges (thanks for the advice though). I will try to get some macro algae if I can. By the way - when is my whole house not going to STINK anymore? It smells so bad, I can't even stand to be on the same floor as the tank! HELP!

 

[MarkO]

It will smell better whent he tank cycles. If you can remove as much dead "stuff", it will smell better sooner.

 

[NateHanson]

I'm not sure whether macro helps in a cycling tank, but if you're looking for it, I've got a bunch for you for free. (or for anyone else)

 

[delta]

you might want to think about an acclimation\restocking plan of your fish not sure how many you have but you dont want to throw your tank off again
restocking when its done cycling

 

[nickyblase]

updates and more help needed!

The tank did end up cycling again. I was lucky enough to have my VERY helpful LFS (Port City Reef in Portland) drive all the way down to where I live, bring me pre-cycled water, a huge filter to hang on the tank, etc etc.

Anyway, the tank was looking good about a week ago, maybe a week and a half, so I added the fish back gradually (first the 2 chromis, then the yellow tang, then yesterday morning the flame angel and this morning the picasso trigger). Everyone was doing fine, and the tests I was taking twice a day were also looking fine (nitrites 0, nitrates 5, ammonia 0, ph 8.0). The temp yesterday was unfortunately off the charts (even with the lights off).

I'm not sure if it's weather related, moving into the new tank related, or what, but the flame angel & the trigger are both acting a little funny.

First the angel -

during the day yesterday and during the day today, he swam at the top of the tank, breathing rapidly. He ate okay, and didn't act like this at night or first thing in the morning. He has no spots or erosion that I can tell, but he does look a little less bright than normal.

Now, the trigger -

I put him in the tank this morning, and he acted normally - pretty pissed about having to be acclimated, but otherwise normal. Within 10 minutes of going in the big tank, he ate fine. Swam around like normal all day until about an hour ago. He started swimming around and then shaking his body like he was trying to get something off it - almost like he had an itch. Likewise - I couldn't see any type of erosion or spots, so I'm not sure what is bringing this on.

The LAST thing I want to do is put these 2 poor fish back into quarantine. They've been in there so long. Is this behavior something very serious? What can I do for them??

 

[Liam]

Whats temp off the charts???

 

[nickyblase]

85 plus. I actually just lost the angel. He started laying on his side and I pulled him out of the tank. Within 10 mins he was gone. Strangely though, the trigger (at least at this very moment) looks fine - not doing that weird shaking movement. Has anyone had a fish do that? It's not constant - only every so often he'll be swimming, and then shake once like a fly was on him.

 

[Liam]

Just trying to work out if the temp could be the problem,is it just over 85 or is 85 as high as your scale goes and it could be a lot higher

 

[nickyblase]

85 was as high as the scale went. The 2 chromis and the yellow tang all look fine. the trigger the last I saw looked okay, but who knows if he's in the clear yet or not. He's hiding in the LR right now.