Help choosing a skimmer

[janda]

I want to buy a skimmer but need some guidance.

What I'm planning is;

125 RR tank, 30 gallon sump with Ehiem 1260. (635 gph) Start with softies and eventually mixed reef. Fish load moderate to heavy. Thought I'd put skimmer in sump but not sure. Max height inside cabinet will be 31". Would like energy efficeincy and a durable / I can get parts if needed unit. Max $ to spend would be a $1,000.00. Yes, less $$$ would be better, much better.

This doesn't have to be the newest, greatest, big brand name thing, it just has to work well.

Sort of hoping for more than just a name brand, a specific model with mods you like etc. would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

 

[dpnshnks]

$1000 on the skimmer, or for everything??? If you're talking skimmer, you can chose just about anyone you want. I've heard great things about the new Bubblemaster skimmers that are coming out (about $450 for a 125). There should be some people to chime in on this to give some reviews by now.

Both Euroreef and Deltec skimmers also have fantastic reputations as well. I've got a Euroreef CS 6-1 on a 120 with a 20g sump and it's probably a bit underpowered for the job. For the money, you can definitely step up into a much bigger/better skimmer that will work great!

Good Luck.

Eric

 

[janda]

I wish a $1000 for everything. But yes I would / could spend that much just for the skimmer. Less is better but I wanted the price point so I could hear more options and ideas. No I'm not rich, just tired of buying things twice if you know what I mean.

 

[nashlake]

Im running a Euroreef RS135 on a 120 gal tank with a 30 gal sump and it works well. If you are planning on putting the skimmer in the sump you may want to plan on some form of an auto top off device.

Jeff

 

[ZReef]

I know exactly what you mean on buying things twice. For my new 150g I might spend a little more for a better skimmer. Good performance is just one aspect. Build quality and reliability are just as important if not more important than performance to me. Those and lack of service to keep the thing working properly.

Bubble Master skimmers seem to be all the rage on RC but I don't always trust their opinions, especialy with new products. H&S skimmers seem to have excellent build quality and performance and I might spend the extra to get one. I believe it's around $650 for the size you need. A comparable Bubble Master is something like $450.

 

[stevenp]

After seeing the mesh-wheel mod in the DIY forum, my vote would be to try and pick up a used skimmer; maybe a Euro Reef or ASM, or maybe even Octopus, add the mesh mod and save yourself a ton of dough.

 

[janda]

I know exactly what you mean on buying things twice. For my new 150g I might spend a little more for a better skimmer. Good performance is just one aspect. Build quality and reliability are just as important if not more important than performance to me. Those and lack of service to keep the thing working properly.

Bubble Master skimmers seem to be all the rage on RC but I don't always trust their opinions, especialy with new products. H&S skimmers seem to have excellent build quality and performance and I might spend the extra to get one. I believe it's around $650 for the size you need. A comparable Bubble Master is something like $450.

Exactly, I need a workhorse.

I'm not planning on carrying a picture of this skimmer around in my wallet.

As for what all the rage is on RC I agree with you and really don't care. Skimmer discussions get kinda testy and most people just love whatever it is they bought. Whether it was a good decision or not.

 

[janda]

After seeing the mesh-wheel mod in the DIY forum, my vote would be to try and pick up a used skimmer; maybe a Euro Reef or ASM, or maybe even Octopus, add the mesh mod and save yourself a ton of dough.

I'll look at that mod. I'm always amazed at how a regular reefer improves on a skimmer design. Manufacturers charge $100's of dollars for these skimmers and you'd think it's good to go out of the box.

That's why I'm asking all of you what you think. Reading their marketing /description is part technical, part fairy tale, and completely confusing to a newbie like me.

Keep your ideas coming and thanks.

 

[RichConley]

I know exactly what you mean on buying things twice. For my new 150g I might spend a little more for a better skimmer. Good performance is just one aspect. Build quality and reliability are just as important if not more important than performance to me. Those and lack of service to keep the thing working properly.

Bubble Master skimmers seem to be all the rage on RC but I don't always trust their opinions, especialy with new products. H&S skimmers seem to have excellent build quality and performance and I might spend the extra to get one. I believe it's around $650 for the size you need. A comparable Bubble Master is something like $450.

To get air draw similar to the smallest bubble-master unit, you're looking at the H&S 200x2-F2001($899), or larger (more likely a 3xF2001 unit - The bubble master pumps pull 50-60 scfh, those aquabees pull just under 20 each).

To get airdraw similar to the bigger bubblemasters, you're looking at a skimmer with 4 eheims on it (the eheims pull 30schf), and those start at around $2K. Meshwheels also make much smaller bubbles than pinwheels.

To put it politely, you'd find your AP600/150-f2001 in the cup of a bubblemaster.

Honestly, don't buy an H&S or a Deltec right now. The newer model ERs are better skimmers than both of them, and are made just as well as the H&S (significantly better than deltec). (The GenX4100s pull 40+ scfh, whereas you're lucky to get 30 out of an eheim)



It is my oppinion, that none of the commercial skimmers are all that good, and other than the Bubble Master/Bubble King, all need to be meshmodded to achieve performance similar to how they should perform. It is my oppinion that one should simply buy a cheap skimmer with a good body, and meshmod the pump.


Honestly, I'd put my $200 meshmodded octopus NW200 up against some serious skimmers (H&S 200-2x1260, Deltec AP 702, etc) and expect it to hang with them. Skimmers are SO easy to modify to get more air that I think its a crime to pay that much.

(My current octopus NW200 has been recirculated, and pulls 60 scfh with meshmod, IE the same as two Deltec Eheim 1260s)

 

[janda]

Rich, so your saying;

1. Look at ATI bubble master skimmers as an option. (can't find a website with their info / pricing)
2. Look at the newer Euro Reef units. (RC 180?)
3. Look at Octopus NW 200.

Some more questions.
NW 200 or the NW 200 recirc version?
What does recirculation mean in plain terms, and what are the benefits?
Could I feed the NW 200 recirc with the planned Eheim 1260 sump?
Thought I could just feed the skimmer with a valve T'd off of the drain line?
Why does the NW 200 use 65 w and the NW 200 recirc use 90 w and they list both as having octopus turbine 3000 pumps?

I saw your link to the RC thread for mesh mod, looks like I've got some reading to do.

 

[RichConley]

Why does the NW 200 use 65 w and the NW 200 recirc use 90 w and they list both as having octopus turbine 3000 pumps?

Honestly, I dont know. What I would assume, is that one is the stock rating on the pump, and the other is the pump while sucking air.


As to recirc vs non-recirc, I honestly dont think theres a huge difference in performance. It does allow easier tuning, because you've decoupled waterflow and airflow, so you can tune one without changing the other (which is impossible in a non recirculating design). Where recirc can help also is venturi design. The venturi I run on my recirc NW200 (ASM mod essentially...home recirc mod) isnt very restrictive, so the pump moves a lot of water, but also pulls a TON of air. If I was to run it like that on a non-recirc, there'd just be WAY too much water flow through the skimmer.



If you want to buy it, stick it in your sump, and never touch it again, buy the ER. If you're big on tech, and want the newest/most efficient gadget, and are willing to go through all the pitfalls of having a new product, buy the Bubblemaster (I think aquarium gallery has them in stock..you may be able to play with them up there.)

If you're like me, and you're a tinkerer, and are going to be hacking at the thing trying to get it to work better whether you bought the ER, Deltec, BM, or whatever, save the cash, and buy the NW200.

Essentially, the NW200 has the same potential as all the other big 8" bodied skimmers, but just isnt as close to that potential to start. Its just 20% of the price. If you're handy and like to play with stuff, go that route. If not, buy the ER.


stay the heck away from ASM right now though.. low quality, low performance, and prices similar to ER.

 

[janda]

Looked at all suggestions.
Thinking about these;

Euroreefs
RS 180
RC 135 recirc
RC 180 recirc

Octopus
NW 200
NW 200 recirc

Bubblemaster
??? No direct link found, just chatter on RC and may be a great skimmer but where the heck does ATI post it's skimmer info? These may be just too new for my tastes.

I'm thinking I like the recirc skimmers for more air flow and I thought I'd T off the drain lines to feed the thing with the nasty water directly.

Some of these things have a big footprint and the 30 gal sump (36" x 12") I was planning may be too small. Maybe fitting a 40 long (48" x 12") under stand would be needed.

Also I wonder about noise from pumps. Octopus skimmers with the turbine 3000 are they loud? Euro's genx read they can be loud but the RC180 comes with the eheim heard they were quiet? Anyone have any of these skimmers and give me some insight?

Am I going too large of a skimmer when looking at a RC 180 for a 125?

 

[Liam]

i have a bubblemaster 200.So far so good.
its very consistent,pulls tons of foul smelling skimmate and is virtually silent.

 

[janda]

i have a bubblemaster 200.So far so good.
its very consistent,pulls tons of foul smelling skimmate and is virtually silent.

Liam I see AG has them posted in their forum. At least worth a trip to the store I guess. Thanks.

 

[RichConley]

Also I wonder about noise from pumps. Octopus skimmers with the turbine 3000 are they loud? Euro's genx read they can be loud but the RC180 comes with the eheim heard they were quiet? Anyone have any of these skimmers and give me some insight?

The Octopus is dead silent. Or atleast mine was until I started cutting up the volute of the pump.


The GenX Euro pumps are louder than the Eheims, but they also pull MUCH more air. The Eheim is a performance downgrade.

 

[bigchippa]

I second the Bubble master I used a ER for years and loved it until I got my new BM 250 yesterday. This thing is in a leage of its own after less than 24 hours of running I can tell you this is a major league skimmer!

 

[JayM]

Is there a link explaining how a recirc skimmer needs a second pump? I don't want to pony up almost double the money for a recirc model NW200 if it can be modded relatively easily. I'm stuck in paralysis by analysis trying to figure all this out. I thought I read somewhere how you need to rip out the 1/2" pipe and replace it with 3/4"....... I gotta start bookmarking this stuff better.

 

[paulthomas]

Actually, the BM 200 should be in the $550 range.

 

[JayM]

Actually, the BM 200 should be in the $550 range.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. After Rich's glowing reviews of his Octupus NW200, which has been tricked out with gate valves, mesh and recirc,
I was in po' man's Octopus land (NW200). I need a chevy, not a Cadillac DTS

 

[RichConley]

http://www.asmskimmer.com/modifications.htm


^^^ how to do recirc mod/etc. Honestly, I dont think the recirc should be more than about $250, if the non recirc is $200....they just charge more because people will pay.