Parasitic Acro Flatworms: PLEASE HELP !

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Agreed

Agreed. Please understand that these parasites have cost me a LOT of $. I am sure if it were anyone else they would be upset as well. I did not focus my anger at anyone on this thread....I focused it at doing something constructive by informing everyone about these pests and how you can't trust retailers to tell you that their corals are infested. Others on this thread should do this same...post their experiences and refrain from attacking me or anyone else.

Moe_K said:
I understand, Chuck.
Just post the information. Lose the anger.

Lets not get into "he started it."

As I already mentioned to everyone - stop the disparaging posts.

Informative discussion should continue.
 
Just for my own curiousity... How did you come to the conclusion that you got the pests from Myself or Scott considering that you bought the corals from me 3+ months ago or have you known about it and have been trading and selling your frags knowing full well that you have had the problem?

Mike
 
>To hear that they caused a large portion of these bugs is news to me<

Keep in mind, that a lot of it is perception, IMO. The question is at what time did ORA KNOW that the bugs were really a problem (ie. they killed Acros) and at what time (if ever) did they therefore stop shipping Acros out to people because they knew they they were infected. Remember, that a lot of the 'experts' were saying....oh, the red mites are not that much of a problem...oh....they are not Really parastic, etc. FWIW, I exchanged a few PM's with ORA on this a few years back.
 
Chuck Spyropulos said:
Scott,
OK, let's assume that there are problems with the wholesale products...does that mean that the hobbyist is responsible for eradicating these pests and that retailers can just sell corals with these pests without treatment or without describing the risk to the buyer?
my point was that we are ALL responsible for Treating and caring for the corals we keep and sell. If a treatment doesn't exisit, or if the pest has not yet been discovered and resists all known treatments, we have to be willing to accept that.
we as consumers should be asking the LFS "do you treat incomming corals, where do they come from, have you had any problems?"
i would be shocked if the sponsors on this forum DO NOT inspect, and treat thier livestock.
it feels like to me, that the collectors are selling the corals with out a care. it's not like they can treat the ocean

B4 I got these 3 corals (2 of them from Reefdom and 1 from Aqua Addicts) I HAD NO PREDATORY FLATWORMS in my tank and I did not realize that I was buying them.

how do you know this for sure. did your tank not crash becuase of an unknown event? I got red bugs from someone over a year ago, lost SPS and thought it was something to do with water paramaters. now to think back that it was more likely to be red bugs. my point is that we can't always be sure, more so after a large unknown crash.
I did all of the steps I thought were correct: Heavy iodine bath and intercepter treatment AND now I have these friggin worms eating my corals....I am friggin pissed! after all of the $ I spent to restock my tank.
your in the same boat as EVERYONE ELSE INCLUDING THE LFS

The retailers need to own up to this problem as well and at least alert buyers so that they don't lose their whole SPS tanks to these predators.
those that know they have them are either posting it on thier tanks as not for sale or are just not selling them till they are sure the corals are not infected.
 
Chuck Spyropulos said:
...and how you can't trust retailers to tell you that their corals are infested. ......

I'd be shocked if any sponsor of the BRS was selling you coral KNOWING that they were infested.

I can speak for Reefdom, it has taken countless hours of my and rays effort to ensure that what's left is worm free.
this has meant thowing away some of my nicest and rarest corals.
the time and money spent to be flatworm free has been no small task.

3+ months is a LONG time to have acro worms. i do not know the cycle of the eggs. but i DO know they can infect and wipe out a tank in a week, not months. i'd be looking for a much more recent purchase than 3 months ago.
 
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Explanation

I bought frags from Ray around 3 months ago. Not knowing of these flatworms, I was confused why 2 out of the 3 colonies I got from him started to bleach from the bottom up. I removed the 2 colonies and inspected them, finding eggs attached to the bottom of the 2 colonies. I disposed of the 2 colonies. This was the first time I ever observed these eggs on any of my colonies. I waited a month before selling frags or buying any new ones and observed my tank. There were absolutely no corals that died or bleached during that month. All of the corals in my tank at that time had been in my tank for at leas 1/2 year with no problems.

Then I bought the bali aquacultured from you, about 2-3 weeks ago (not sure about the exact day, time etc). Everything looked good for a week, then the yellow coral's polyps stopped coming out this week. I removed the coral last night and inspected the bottom of the coral with a magnifying glass...I found the eggs. I have inspected all other colonies in my tank and also all of my frags and they do not have the flatworms. All of my incoming corals get an interceptor treatment and a 15-20 minute Lugol's solution dip. If I had known that your shop or Ray's corals had these pests, I would have either returned them to you, thrown them out b4 putting them in my tank, or treated them.

The key point here is that I trusted AA and Ray. I trusted that I would have been informed about any problems, especially these pests. But not one retailer told me there were any problems with these colonies. I blame the retailers, not for the worms, but for the failure to notify me that the corals I bought were infected.

I have not been trading or selling since the last frag swap and believe me I much more responsible and would never trade or sell anything from my system knowing that it could infest someone elses tank. Your slick accusation that I am selling infected corals is unfounded and seems like an attempt to reflect responsibility from yourself and your shop

Another note: Corals I have bought from Jeremy at CRA, at from Skipton's are all doing great and are thriving today....no worms....no bugs. These corals were bought over 1/2 year ago to re-stock my tank after my RTN problem subsided. Since All of these corals were bought over 1/2 year ago and I am thus certain that this worm problem is due to current purchases at AA and Reefdom (Ray).


All the other corals I bought from you died from unknown causes: The hydnophora never showed polyps, never. The Australiagyris (sp?) wasted away to nothing and the skin just kept peeling off. The third coral also withered away. So I now have nothing for the $400 I spent at your store.




Aqua Addict said:
Just for my own curiousity... How did you come to the conclusion that you got the pests from Myself or Scott considering that you bought the corals from me 3+ months ago or have you known about it and have been trading and selling your frags knowing full well that you have had the problem?

Mike
 
Shocked

Scott,

I understand all of your posts, but as you indicated, getting rid of these pests takes a long time and alot of effort. Maybe it takes too much effort for some of the LFSs.

My tank never crashed dueto predatory worms. It was a sudden alkalinity drop along with RowaPhos. It happened on a weekend while I was away on vaction. I inspected every coral that RTNd and NEVER found a single egg or flatworm back then (~2 years ago).

Shocked? Nothing shocks me these days. I wish I could trust all these LFSs but now....I just can't anymore except for the few I mentioned: CRA, Skipton's, Reef Sciences (online). All of the corals from them continue to thrive and do well without incident.

I do not blame any LFS for the worms, I blame them for not notifying me or not treating their corals.

Scott Merrill said:
I'd be shocked if any sponsor of the BRS was selling you coral KNOWING that they were infested.
 
Perhaps a there may be a member or two that may want to experiment with treatments if chuck would be will to donate some of his flat worms just a thought.
 
You have not been here since February.... So I find it interesting that you bought it a couple weeks ago... I have the reciept on all the acros and the Blue Throat Trigger...

Mike
 
Chuck you told me that you got the worms from Dr Mac.
I told you that I saw them on an incomming colony and just threw the colony out and you said you didnt want to do that and you would wait and see what happens. You said the Dr mac stuff died first and then the stuff you got from me started to go. So I think it is safe to say you had them before the stuff you got from me.
I also think it was more then 3 months since you bought stuff from me. When I get home I will look at the date and post.
 
I think we should leave ORA out of this. As greg said, many people were of the opinion that the red bugs didn't kill corals. Also, dustin put in more hours than any of you realize to come up with a cure, as did we in helping to implement it. It wasn't luck at all, but good logical reasoning based on previous knowledge of treating invertebrate parasites of fish in freshwater. I"m not going to go into the entire process of how a cure was developed here, but putting ORA thru the ringer on red bugs in a flatworm thread is certainly not necessary.
 
Red Bugs not Flatworms

Ray,

The Dr. Mac frags had red bugs but no flatworms. I am 100% sure that the corals I got from you were the first ones that had the flatworms.

You are correct about the timeline.... it was more than 3 months ago.

Ray said:
Chuck you told me that you got the worms from Dr Mac.
I told you that I saw them on an incomming colony and just threw the colony out and you said you didnt want to do that and you would wait and see what happens. You said the Dr mac stuff died first and then the stuff you got from me started to go. So I think it is safe to say you had them before the stuff you got from me.
I also think it was more then 3 months since you bought stuff from me. When I get home I will look at the date and post.
 
Frags

Jeremy,

All of the corals I got from you 1 or 2 years ago are still thriving. The recent buy at the LFS trip proved again that your corals are outstanding and free of any pests, at least in my experience.

Maybe you could let us know why you do not seem to have any problems ?


JeremyR said:
I think we should leave ORA out of this. As greg said, many people were of the opinion that the red bugs didn't kill corals. Also, dustin put in more hours than any of you realize to come up with a cure, as did we in helping to implement it. It wasn't luck at all, but good logical reasoning based on previous knowledge of treating invertebrate parasites of fish in freshwater. I"m not going to go into the entire process of how a cure was developed here, but putting ORA thru the ringer on red bugs in a flatworm thread is certainly not necessary.
 
Well in his store there is a sign for those that aren't for sale that he is treating...so Jeremy is very responsible when it comes to that... Im sure others treat as well...I just was impressed when I went to the store and saw acro flatworms, not for sale on something...

I think I have seen this at other stores too... CRA and Sea Creatures...cant remember, but education is the key...if they are getting stuff in from wholesalers with the stuff, they can only treat the best they possibly can...

My understanding is that aquacultured though not immune to these buggers tend to have less problems with them unlike harvested corals which can come in with whatever...this is one of the reason the fragswaps are so important....


Chuck Spyropulos said:
Jeremy,

All of the corals I got from you 1 or 2 years ago are still thriving. The recent buy at the LFS trip proved again that your corals are outstanding and free of any pests, at least in my experience.

Maybe you could let us know why you do not seem to have any problems ?
 
Do these parasites not free swim/travel through the water column? Im trying to understand how neighboring colonies in the same tank can be fine yet others die from them. Is it possible that certain species taste better to them then others?
 
Because I look at the corals every day, I'm paranoid about flatworms, and any coral that gets any recession whatsoever gets a really solid going over by me. Having said that.. it's not impossible that someone won't get a red bug or flatworm from me someday.. I do accept trade ins, and while I do my absolute best to be pest free, you have to understand that these flatworms are extremely difficult to detect when they are small. The user needs to quarantine everything no matter where you purchase it, and have a protocol in place for the eventual consequences of not doing so.

I think this thread has served it's purpose. We are all now aware that flatworms are loose locally, something I've been telling people for awhile now. Further witch-hunting isn't going to help us.. ways of defeating the pests will.
 
I would like to see if these flatworms or the eggs show up under the light and filter that I got from the coral floressence meeting. Someone who has them please PM me and I will get the light to you or come check it out myself.

I did this with red bugs and they do not floress. But I have several snails and slug type things in my tank that I only know are there because of this light and filter. It also shows mojano anemones like christmas lights.

It is worth a try to see if these flatworms or eggs show up.
 
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