Greg Hiller
BRS Moderator
Yeah, must have come from that massive shipment I just got in from the Solomons. Took two hours to unload.
Parasitic Acro Flatworms: PLEASE HELP !
- Thread starter Chuck Spyropulos
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, must have come from that massive shipment I just got in from the Solomons. Took two hours to unload.
NateHanson
Non-member
Kudos to everyone for rescuing this thread and making it constructive and informative.
Let's please keep it that way and leave the personal accusations for PM. They're not relevant to this useful discussion.
Nate
Let's please keep it that way and leave the personal accusations for PM. They're not relevant to this useful discussion.
Nate
JeremyR
CRA
Likely there is more than one strain of flatworm. In any event, the ones I had were totally immune to Exit, Greenex (both at like 20x dose) AND lugols AND coral dip all at the same time. They got annoyed, but did not die. Oomed is not going to work, if it did, so would greenex.
It's too late to eliminate wild collection to save us from flatworms.. too many people have already traded from tanks that had them. They absolutely do NOT stay on one coral. Just as not every acro is affected by red bugs to the same degree, the same is the case here. Tossing a couple colonies does not mean 3 weeks later you are safe to trade with friends. Maybe in 6 months without ever seeing one...
There are a number of dewormers I'd like to try. Greg Pm'd me one.. there are others.. it's possible someone will find one that they are susceptible too that will at least work in a dip.
It's too late to eliminate wild collection to save us from flatworms.. too many people have already traded from tanks that had them. They absolutely do NOT stay on one coral. Just as not every acro is affected by red bugs to the same degree, the same is the case here. Tossing a couple colonies does not mean 3 weeks later you are safe to trade with friends. Maybe in 6 months without ever seeing one...
There are a number of dewormers I'd like to try. Greg Pm'd me one.. there are others.. it's possible someone will find one that they are susceptible too that will at least work in a dip.
One Eye
former vp of pr
Greg, Jeremy. I just picked up a millipora and a prostata from Chuck at the last meeting. I did my usual dips and QT. I just put them in my tank a week ago. I didn't see any flatworms, but I wasn't exactly looking for eggs. Milli's and prostatas would be difficult with the lenghty polyps anyway.
My question is, are these things like red mites-- Chucks got them and I traded with him so now I deffinatly have them? I did not see any tissue damage. The polyps on both corals are fully extended. I just looked with a magnifying glass (again) and saw nothing. Can I safely say I'm worm free?
My question is, are these things like red mites-- Chucks got them and I traded with him so now I deffinatly have them? I did not see any tissue damage. The polyps on both corals are fully extended. I just looked with a magnifying glass (again) and saw nothing. Can I safely say I'm worm free?
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
Frags
Darren, both of those colonies are worm free as I have never seen one egg or worm on the mother colonies or on the frags. The mother colonies both continue to do extremely well and all of the people who bought frags from me have told me that their frags are doing great.
I hope this helps.
Darren, both of those colonies are worm free as I have never seen one egg or worm on the mother colonies or on the frags. The mother colonies both continue to do extremely well and all of the people who bought frags from me have told me that their frags are doing great.
I hope this helps.
One Eye said:
~Flighty~
Now with more baby
I think you could say they are not being effected by the worms now, but I don't think you can say they are worm free. I'm not trying to be confrontational here, just saying it the way I see it.
These worms seem to be undetectable untill they multiply enough to start killing the tissue. What is the planktonic stage like? is it even visable or out in the open? Do they maybe live inside the coral tissue after hatching untill they mature enough to come out, clear a patch of tissue away and lay more eggs? These are things that aren't known yet. I think there isn't enough information to say that just because the coral isn't dying right now that it can't be carring the bugs. I also don't think there is enough information to say that when a coral dies from these bugs that it must have arived from the store with them.
These worms seem to be undetectable untill they multiply enough to start killing the tissue. What is the planktonic stage like? is it even visable or out in the open? Do they maybe live inside the coral tissue after hatching untill they mature enough to come out, clear a patch of tissue away and lay more eggs? These are things that aren't known yet. I think there isn't enough information to say that just because the coral isn't dying right now that it can't be carring the bugs. I also don't think there is enough information to say that when a coral dies from these bugs that it must have arived from the store with them.
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
Corals and worms
I am telling it the way I see it as well. These colonies appear to be completely unaffected at present since they have not bleached at the base, have never exhibited any eggs or flatworms on them, and continue to extend their polyps.
But, everyone should treat their corals and it is the buyer's responsibility in the end right? So if Darren wants to be 100% sure, he needs to pull the corals from his system and return them to me for a refund.....or set up a quarantine system and observe the corals over a period of a few weeks to ensure that there are no flatworms present.
There is not enough information to support your claims or my claims. Everyone's tank is at risk...so everyone should quarantine corals. No one is to blame, unless they knowingly and intentionally sell frags or corals without at least informing the buyer.
I am telling it the way I see it as well. These colonies appear to be completely unaffected at present since they have not bleached at the base, have never exhibited any eggs or flatworms on them, and continue to extend their polyps.
But, everyone should treat their corals and it is the buyer's responsibility in the end right? So if Darren wants to be 100% sure, he needs to pull the corals from his system and return them to me for a refund.....or set up a quarantine system and observe the corals over a period of a few weeks to ensure that there are no flatworms present.
There is not enough information to support your claims or my claims. Everyone's tank is at risk...so everyone should quarantine corals. No one is to blame, unless they knowingly and intentionally sell frags or corals without at least informing the buyer.
~Flighty~ said:
One Eye
former vp of pr
Chuck, I had them in QT from the time I got them from you until just before the lfs tour. I took my 5 gal qt tank with me to house what I bought overnight (I stayed at a hotel in Chatham) I did the usual qt treatments, looked with a magnifying glass, held them in qt almost a month and didn't see anything to be concerned about. But, I'm sure you qt'ed your new purchases as well and they still got into your system, that's why I'm asking. Thanks for the info though.
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
Qt
Well I must admit that I have not quarantined corals in the past. I was under the false belief that Interceptor treatment plus Iodine dip equalled safe corals.
Now I know better and I will be quaranteening everything for 2-4 weeks.
Hey Darren, what do you use for a Q system ?
Well I must admit that I have not quarantined corals in the past. I was under the false belief that Interceptor treatment plus Iodine dip equalled safe corals.
Now I know better and I will be quaranteening everything for 2-4 weeks.
Hey Darren, what do you use for a Q system ?
One Eye said:
One Eye
former vp of pr
Chuck, I have a cheapo 5 gal glass tank, power head(varies in size for whats being qt'ed) small heater and a hang on filter (an old whisper, I think?)
I set it up and break it down in just a couple minutes. To set up I just drain water from my system into the qt tank. For corals I just set them on the bottom glass (no rock or sand) if theres a few I'll put an eggcrate shelf I made into it. For fish I put a couple pieces of pvc in different diameters and lengths. I NEVER use copper.
I have room on my stand to place it where there is enough light from my main tanks hitting the qt to keep corals going for a few weeks, but sometimes I have to set up an old 175 watt mh (up real high over a 5 gal)
for stuff I'm not to worried about I use the speciman container and airstone thing I posted pics of before.
I set it up and break it down in just a couple minutes. To set up I just drain water from my system into the qt tank. For corals I just set them on the bottom glass (no rock or sand) if theres a few I'll put an eggcrate shelf I made into it. For fish I put a couple pieces of pvc in different diameters and lengths. I NEVER use copper.
I have room on my stand to place it where there is enough light from my main tanks hitting the qt to keep corals going for a few weeks, but sometimes I have to set up an old 175 watt mh (up real high over a 5 gal)
for stuff I'm not to worried about I use the speciman container and airstone thing I posted pics of before.
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
Filtration
Darren,
What do you use for filtration media? How do you get beneficial bacteria to colonize when you need them for the QT ?
Chuck
Darren,
What do you use for filtration media? How do you get beneficial bacteria to colonize when you need them for the QT ?
Chuck
One Eye said:
Chuck Spyropulos
Non-member
UPDATE: Infected colony is still in reduced salinity water (1.021) with a triple dose of SeaChem.
Tonight I inspected the infected colony and the eggs are still there! I figured maybe that the reduced salinity would cause some osmotic potential between the inside of the eggs and the surrounding low salinity water that might cause the eggs to burst, but so far eggs are still intact.
Tonight I inspected the infected colony and the eggs are still there! I figured maybe that the reduced salinity would cause some osmotic potential between the inside of the eggs and the surrounding low salinity water that might cause the eggs to burst, but so far eggs are still intact.
NateHanson
Non-member
how big are these eggs? What color?
One Eye
former vp of pr
I was speaking with some people yesterday who really study these things and they said they still weren't sure about the gestation period. To my benefit they did say that the worms will go after millis and prostatas but they prefer other acros over them so there's a good chance I escaped this pest.
They also said that some tanks just won't support the flatworms. Don't know why. These worms have been reported to go from a seperate tank shareing a sump with another tank. They made it through pumps, filters, skimmers, and UV steralizers to infest the other tank. They've also been reported to reproduce BEFORE they reached a size visible to the human eye.
They also said that some tanks just won't support the flatworms. Don't know why. These worms have been reported to go from a seperate tank shareing a sump with another tank. They made it through pumps, filters, skimmers, and UV steralizers to infest the other tank. They've also been reported to reproduce BEFORE they reached a size visible to the human eye.
- Status
